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Old 03-28-2010, 11:38 PM
 
42 posts, read 59,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post

But what is "Aussiness"?? Amongst my friends (who are pretty much mostly 1st or 2nd gen Aussies) are Armenians, Greeks, Italians, Turkish, Danish, Afghan, British, Irish, Sth African, Paraguyan, Chilean, Lebanese, Japanese, Sri Lankan and so on...

so where is the shared heritage there? Isn't that what makes Australia? All these people from different parts of the world living together? So how, will new immigrants erode that?
You ask where is the shared heritage? This is the problem multiculturalism has created. Thirty years ago no one would of questioned who Australians are and what their culture is. That's how bad this country's identity has been eroded. Unity is what made Australia not the liberal Utopian fantasies of universal harmony and coexistence. Culture is to complex to explain in just a few sentences. To just say Australia had no cultural identity up until the 1970s-80s (when multiculturalism was made an offical policy) is blatantly false.

Australia has always had its own character, artists, authors, clothing, entertainers, explorers, landmarks (geographic & man made) , language, literates, music, poets, sporting icons, scientists, war heroes, etc, etc. It would take me all day to name them all.


Up until 1975 Australia had an immigration policy designed to keep it a white Anglo-European society (which is what our core culture is based on). It was about preserving a group of related people and its culture. change the demographic make up of a country and you will change its character. Post-WWII Europeans that migrated here were assimilated for the most part since most of them were already compatible with Australian society. Every nation relies on a sense of community. That sense of community belonging can easily be damaged by the large/rapid entry of people who are completely alien - racially, culturally, religiously. (The new source of migrants from Asia, Middle East, Africa)

Multiculturalism (covert for multiracialism) is what makes divisions and threatens social cohesion. You can find this happening all around the world. You have the environmental impact which large scale immigration has too which is so obvious that there's no need to get started on. What Dr Birrell is saying is what most people believe and its because it comes back down to the use of common sense.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:03 AM
 
14,771 posts, read 17,075,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
You ask where is the shared heritage? This is the problem multiculturalism has created. Thirty years ago no one would of questioned who Australians are and what their culture is. That's how bad this country's identity has been eroded. Unity is what made Australia not the liberal Utopian fantasies of universal harmony and coexistence. Culture is to complex to explain in just a few sentences. To just say Australia had no cultural identity up until the 1970s-80s (when multiculturalism was made an offical policy) is blatantly false.
I dont view it as a problem at all. I love multicultralism in this country.

30 years ago??? 30 years ago Italians & Greeks were being bashed for being different in this country. Now you're all sipping your latte's, and dining al fresco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Australia has always had its own character, artists, authors, clothing, entertainers, explorers, landmarks (geographic & man made) , language, literates, music, poets, sporting icons, scientists, war heroes, etc, etc. It would take me all day to name them all.
what's your point? For each of those categories I could find someone who is not "dinky di" who has contributed to Australian society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Up until 1975 Australia had an immigration policy designed to keep it a white Anglo-European society (which is what our core culture is based on). It was about preserving a group of related people and its culture. change the demographic make up of a country and you will change its character.
a shameful and embarrasing part of Australian history. Yet, some people think this is ideal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Post-WWII Europeans that migrated here were assimilated for the most part since most of them were already compatible with Australian society. Every nation relies on a sense of community. That sense of community belonging can easily be damaged by the large/rapid entry of people who are completely alien - racially, culturally, religiously. (The new source of migrants from Asia, Middle East, Africa)
Really? compatible with Australian society?
No, just some people willing to do back breaking work and start a new life. Not much has changed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Multiculturalism (covert for multiracialism) is what makes divisions and threatens social cohesion. You can find this happening all around the world. You have the environmental impact which large scale immigration has too which is so obvious that there's no need to get started on. What Dr Birrell is saying is what most people believe and its because it comes back down to the use of common sense.
threatens social cohesion? Please tell me in what way.
All around the world you say? where?

the enviornmental and infrastructure argument is something entirely different altogether.

To suggest that Australia's identity - that NO ONE has been able to tell me what that is exactly, is being eroded is false & misleading, appealing to bigots nationwide, who have forgotten just how their families got here.

Whether it was the convict ship, the 10 pound poms, or after WW2 - face it everyone came here to create a new life and brought with them a facet of their old community & homeland.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Perth, Western Australia
9,589 posts, read 27,748,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
You ask where is the shared heritage? This is the problem multiculturalism has created. Thirty years ago no one would of questioned who Australians are and what their culture is. That's how bad this country's identity has been eroded. Unity is what made Australia not the liberal Utopian fantasies of universal harmony and coexistence. Culture is to complex to explain in just a few sentences. To just say Australia had no cultural identity up until the 1970s-80s (when multiculturalism was made an offical policy) is blatantly false.

Australia has always had its own character, artists, authors, clothing, entertainers, explorers, landmarks (geographic & man made) , language, literates, music, poets, sporting icons, scientists, war heroes, etc, etc. It would take me all day to name them all.


Up until 1975 Australia had an immigration policy designed to keep it a white Anglo-European society (which is what our core culture is based on). It was about preserving a group of related people and its culture. change the demographic make up of a country and you will change its character. Post-WWII Europeans that migrated here were assimilated for the most part since most of them were already compatible with Australian society. Every nation relies on a sense of community. That sense of community belonging can easily be damaged by the large/rapid entry of people who are completely alien - racially, culturally, religiously. (The new source of migrants from Asia, Middle East, Africa)

Multiculturalism (covert for multiracialism) is what makes divisions and threatens social cohesion. You can find this happening all around the world. You have the environmental impact which large scale immigration has too which is so obvious that there's no need to get started on. What Dr Birrell is saying is what most people believe and its because it comes back down to the use of common sense.
Like this Bruce?


YouTube - Monty Python - Bruce
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:52 AM
 
42 posts, read 59,275 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
I dont view it as a problem at all. I love multicultralism in this country.

30 years ago??? 30 years ago Italians & Greeks were being bashed for being different in this country. Now you're all sipping your latte's, and dining al fresco.
.
You love multiculturalism but that doesn't mean everyone does. You fail to see that it has caused many social problems all around the world not just here. Political multiculturalism is cultural marxism. You don't know $hit about cultures, you just have a nice feeling about them like most pro-multuicultralists. I've never heard of any Greeks or Italians being beaten up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
what's your point? For each of those categories I could find someone who is not "dinky di" who has contributed to Australian society..
The point is that the people that made Australia's identity are white Anglo-Celts & other Europeans. Not these migrants of today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
a shameful and embarrasing part of Australian history. Yet, some people think this is ideal..
Whats shameful about preserving your people and culture? Every nation does that and you wouldn't object to it so whats with the double standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
Really? compatible with Australian society?
No, just some people willing to do back breaking work and start a new life. Not much has changed..

Yes compatible, people who will be fully integrated and undistinguished from the rest of the population eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
threatens social cohesion? Please tell me in what way.
All around the world you say? where?.
Just look at the increase in crime we've gotten over the last few decades. Also how many more Cronullas and foreigners protesting are we going to need before you realise theres a problem? Are you really that blind? Around the world: you had in Ireland religious diversity and they killed each other, in the Balkans you had ethnic and religous diversity, they killed each other, in Africa and the middle east you have racial and religous diversity and they killing each other, in south Asia, etc, etc. The list goes on and its to do with racial and cultural diversity. Different people trying to coexist side by side in the same land/territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
the environmental and infrastructure argument is something entirely different altogether..
Yeah it is, and its not wise to have more pollution and congestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
To suggest that Australia's identity - that NO ONE has been able to tell me what that is exactly, is being eroded is false & misleading, appealing to bigots nationwide, who have forgotten just how their families got here. .
Why do we always have to justify our identity/culture? You wouldn't ask these questions to Chinese people or Indians or Arabs or any other people. We are all different and wish to preserve our people, society and way of life without the unwanted embrace of alien peoples/cultures.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:28 AM
 
Location: USA
3,966 posts, read 10,680,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCanadian View Post
lol good stuff.

When I think Australia, i think the giant open lands that you guys have. I also think of the Europeans that came here by force many centuries ago. I also think of the native guys that use didgeridoos. I also see polite, hardy, people along with great beaches and scary sharks. I don't know if this adds to the conversation, but as an outsider, that is my picture of Australia.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:46 AM
 
14,771 posts, read 17,075,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
You love multiculturalism but that doesn't mean everyone does. You fail to see that it has caused many social problems all around the world not just here. Political multiculturalism is cultural marxism. You don't know $hit about cultures, you just have a nice feeling about them like most pro-multuicultralists. I've never heard of any Greeks or Italians being beaten up.
You've never heard of Italians & Greeks copping hard time when they migrated here? It happened. Theyre now mostly accepted after 40 or so years, yet the cycle continues... we've ripped thru the asians, the arabs I believe it is now the African's turn, right ?

nice feeling about cultures? I believe people are people. Their culture is part of them. Australia is built on a multide of people from all over the globe. I dont think we have a definitive culture as yet. What about the Australian cultural idea of "fair go" or is that just for the people who got here 100 years ago?

How doesn't it work? what state are you living in?


Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post

The point is that the people that made Australia's identity are white Anglo-Celts & other Europeans. Not these migrants of today.
wow. how can they make Australia's identity when they're new Australians? How do you pick & choose who comes here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Whats shameful about preserving your people and culture? Every nation does that and you wouldn't object to it so whats with the double standards.
There are no double standards - my point is Australia is built on multi-cultralism wasn't /isn't it???

so what "people" are we preserving? Anglo Australia? Indigenous Australia? Migrants of 40,50 years past??

You don't think the "White Australia Policy" was shameful and fundamentally racist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Yes compatible, people who will be fully integrated and undistinguished from the rest of the population eventually.
how interesting. Not for me. I enjoy Australia for all it's differences. I enjoy that so many people come from all over the world, and share a common love of this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Just look at the increase in crime we've gotten over the last few decades. Also how many more Cronullas and foreigners protesting are we going to need before you realise theres a problem? What's the problem?
Cronulla protesters: yeah it was totally awesome seeing people with signs "ethnic cleansing unit" who exactly is the problem there?

We have had an increase in population - that would increase crime. more people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Are you really that blind? Around the world: you had in Ireland religious diversity and they killed each other, in the Balkans you had ethnic and religous diversity, they killed each other, in Africa and the middle east you have racial and religous diversity and they killing each other, in south Asia, etc, etc. The list goes on and its to do with racial and cultural diversity. Different people trying to coexist side by side in the same land/territory.
yeah. people fight. That sort of stuff doesn't occur here. Australia is an example of how multicultralism works.


Quote:
Originally Posted by adsfr88 View Post
Yeah it is, and its not wise to have more pollution and congestion.


Why do we always have to justify our identity/culture? You wouldn't ask these questions to Chinese people or Indians or Arabs or any other people. We are all different and wish to preserve our people, society and way of life without the unwanted embrace of alien peoples/cultures.
The article is what defined Australian culture as shared heritage, shared language & shared sport - remember? I asked how that is so -

unwanted by whom? what alien cultures are impeding on your aussie culture?
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:44 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,606 posts, read 55,914,193 times
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He's right in a way. The mass immigration of hoards of white people did kill Australian culture; 50 odd thousand years of it!

But in seriousness, I used to kind of hold that viewpoint myself, and actually don't want to see Australia become a mini version of the world either. We have a culture - mostly British, a bit Irish, a bit 'wog', a bit Asian - but it's always been a patchwork of different nationalities. Aussie culture is so British it's ridiculous: most 'Aussie' slang is really second-hand Cockney slang.

I'll read the article and add my thoughts...
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:53 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,606 posts, read 55,914,193 times
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So I guess you want to see an all white Australia, adsfr88? Diversity is a big cause of the problem?

Yes, diversity is a cause of the problem, when people are ignorant cavemen who think everyone who is different from them in any way is an enemy. The key is not to facilitate these narrow-minded racist impulses but the force people to see how ridiculous they are. It's like saying the way we should stop rapists raping women is to get rid of all the women! (to give an example). It's like saying that Indian student who was bashed had it coming because he dared to invade upon 'white' territory!

In other words, diversity is only a minor 'problem' veiling a much bigger problem.

I'm all for making immigrants learn English - and I don't like it when people from Asia who can't speak English open up a shop and don't make an effort to learn to speak it. But people from any background who come here generally make an effort to assimilate; ironically, sometimes they seem to assimilate the most.

And what about English speaking immigrants? Apart from the fact most immigrants from any country - English speaking or not - have admirable language skills, the majority STILL come from the UK, South Africa and New Zealand. I don't here much complaining about the number of poms here. In parts of Perth English people outnumber Aussies. Aren't you afraid they're going to dilute Australian culture with their Englishness (despite the fact we share so much in common)?
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:03 AM
 
14,771 posts, read 17,075,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
So I guess you want to see an all white Australia, adsfr88? Diversity is a big cause of the problem?

Yes, diversity is a cause of the problem, when people are ignorant cavemen who think everyone who is different from them in any way is an enemy. The key is not to facilitate these narrow-minded racist impulses but the force people to see how ridiculous they are. It's like saying the way we should stop rapists raping women is to get rid of all the women! (to give an example). It's like saying that Indian student who was bashed had it coming because he dared to invade upon 'white' territory!

In other words, diversity is only a minor 'problem' veiling a much bigger problem.

I'm all for making immigrants learn English - and I don't like it when people from Asia who can't speak English open up a shop and don't make an effort to learn to speak it. But people from any background who come here generally make an effort to assimilate; ironically, sometimes they seem to assimilate the most.

And what about English speaking immigrants? Apart from the fact most immigrants from any country - English speaking or not - have admirable language skills, the majority STILL come from the UK, South Africa and New Zealand. I don't here much complaining about the number of poms here. In parts of Perth English people outnumber Aussies. Aren't you afraid they're going to dilute Australian culture with their Englishness (despite the fact we share so much in common)?
exactly.
I have no problem with people here having the requirement that people learn English. This has been the case for a number of years in Australia.
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Old 03-29-2010, 03:05 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,606 posts, read 55,914,193 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozgal View Post
exactly.
I have no problem with people here having the requirement that people learn English. This has been the case for a number of years in Australia.
I think some people like adsrf88 wouldn't even like to see a mass immigration of English speaking Africans merely because their dark skin wouldn't blend in!

Last edited by Trimac20; 03-29-2010 at 03:31 AM..
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