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Old 02-28-2011, 12:39 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,883,407 times
Reputation: 11886

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GO View Post
Kyle took out Carl, who did have a faster car on the top speed and thru the corners. No doubt it would have been a 3rd or worst place for kyle if he had not crashed Carl. What gets me is what nascar lets toyota get away with on the engines. They must have seperate rule book for toyotas to help them out. It will be interesting if Honda or VW get in it tho.
Perhaps the Toyoda's have some kind of engine advantage (the Japanese are pretty good at reverse engineering to build a better mouse trap (no pun intended). But the alternative is to have Nascar adapt a spec. engine and we all know with GM's influence what that engine would be.
No way will Ford or Dodge run their cars with some other manufacturers engine, so instead of 1/2 the field being GM powered you would have 100% being GM powered. The end of NASCAR as we know it.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Hernando, FL
749 posts, read 2,101,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
19 wins in 6 full seasons. Compared to his minor league stats, yes, his cup stats are fairly underwhelming.
Very underwhelming considering in modern day era NASCAR, Gordon got 12 or 13 wins in one season. Also I don't believe Kyle ever has had the most wins in one sprint cup season.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,566 posts, read 10,287,257 times
Reputation: 9827
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Say anything you want about Kyle but don't dismiss his talent. The competition in Cup is far superior to Bush and truck.
Underwhelming! Compared to who?
Let's do some comparison shopping:
Through 6 full seasons

Darrell Waltrip - 27 wins, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Terry Labonte - 4 wins, 1 Championship, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Dale Earnhardt - ROTY, 11 wins, 1 Championship, 5 Top 10 points finishes
Mark Martin - 7 wins, 4 Top 10 points finishes
Rusty Wallace - ROTY, 16 wins, 1 Championship, 4 Top 10 points finishes
*-Bill Elliott - 29 wins, 1 Championship, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Jeff Gordon - ROTY, 42 wins, 3 Championships, 5 Top 10 points finishes
Tony Stewart - ROTY, 19 wins, 1 Championship, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Matt Kenseth - ROTY, 9 wins, 1 Championship, 4 Top 10 points finishes

Kyle Busch - ROTY, 19 wins, 4 Top 10 points finishes

*-Used Elliott's first full season (1982)

With the exception of Mark Martin and Darrell Waltrip, all the drivers I listed had won at least one championship by the end of their 6th season, and precisely none of them bragged about having a win total overinflated by a bunch of minor league victories against markedly inferior competition.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:19 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,883,407 times
Reputation: 11886
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
Let's do some comparison shopping:
Through 6 full seasons

Darrell Waltrip - 27 wins, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Terry Labonte - 4 wins, 1 Championship, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Dale Earnhardt - ROTY, 11 wins, 1 Championship, 5 Top 10 points finishes
Mark Martin - 7 wins, 4 Top 10 points finishes
Rusty Wallace - ROTY, 16 wins, 1 Championship, 4 Top 10 points finishes
*-Bill Elliott - 29 wins, 1 Championship, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Jeff Gordon - ROTY, 42 wins, 3 Championships, 5 Top 10 points finishes
Tony Stewart - ROTY, 19 wins, 1 Championship, 6 Top 10 points finishes
Matt Kenseth - ROTY, 9 wins, 1 Championship, 4 Top 10 points finishes

Kyle Busch - ROTY, 19 wins, 4 Top 10 points finishes

*-Used Elliott's first full season (1982)

With the exception of Mark Martin and Darrell Waltrip, all the drivers I listed had won at least one championship by the end of their 6th season, and precisely none of them bragged about having a win total overinflated by a bunch of minor league victories against markedly inferior competition.
By your way of thinking Mark Martin (who never won a Championsip) is just another mediocre driver like you say Kyle is.

I understand you don't like Bush and that is certainly your prerogative but if he never wins a Championship and that is a possibility, he is still considered by his competitors to be one of the best drivers at this time.

Last of people think Jr is the best driver out there but his popularity far outshines his on track performance.

There are a few drivers I don't particularly care for but why waste others time by trying to convince them of my driver evaluation talents.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:28 AM
 
6,368 posts, read 13,929,331 times
Reputation: 5885
Hey BS73,

Even Gordon acknowledges how good KB is.

listen from :20 to :25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1QWe...eature=related
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Cane-Bay Plantation
2,223 posts, read 4,410,105 times
Reputation: 469
Yes TY! ^^ +1
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,566 posts, read 10,287,257 times
Reputation: 9827
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
By your way of thinking Mark Martin (who never won a Championsip) is just another mediocre driver like you say Kyle is.

I understand you don't like Bush and that is certainly your prerogative but if he never wins a Championship and that is a possibility, he is still considered by his competitors to be one of the best drivers at this time.

Last of people think Jr is the best driver out there but his popularity far outshines his on track performance.

There are a few drivers I don't particularly care for but why waste others time by trying to convince them of my driver evaluation talents.
My point is that Kyle's talent level is extremely overblown because everyone factors in all the minor-league bullying he's handed out.

Is he a good driver, sure, but can we please stop with all the Petty, Pearson, Earnhardt, and Waltrip comparisons?

He's yet to win a single Sprint Cup championship, damn near 80% of his wins have been against inferior competition, and he's the only driver who runs around acting like all 88 of his victories carry equal weight. They don't.

If we counted all wins equally, Geoff Bodine would be up with Petty and Pearson for winning 55 modified races in ONE YEAR.

As for Mark Martin, yes, his legacy will be tarnished by the fact that he's never won a championship. It's the one thing that will fail to get him over the hump from very good driver to great driver.

It sucks, but the same thing happened to Dan Marino, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, et. al. You can be one of the best in your sport for an extended period of time but if you don't win a championship your career accomplishments will be tarnished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimme3steps View Post
Hey BS73,

Even Gordon acknowledges how good KB is.

listen from :20 to :25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1QWe...eature=related
Again, I don't doubt that Kyle's a good driver, but I don't inflate his talent level with Nationwide and Truck Series stats like others do. If he could dominate in Sprint Cup like he has against the minor-league lightweights then I might jump on the "Kyle's the Greatest Thing Since..." bandwagon, but until then I call him overhyped.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:22 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,883,407 times
Reputation: 11886
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
My point is that Kyle's talent level is extremely overblown because everyone factors in all the minor-league bullying he's handed out.
BS 73 , Yes you are correct Kyly bush only beats up on the minor league Nationwide lightweight teams, Like Roush, Childress, Penske and of course the Hendrick minor league operation.

What races have you been watching?

Last edited by PDD; 03-01-2011 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:40 AM
 
6,368 posts, read 13,929,331 times
Reputation: 5885
BS73

No problem. You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else. Fact is, I'm not a huge KB fan, but I do recognize and admire his talent.

We all get it. You don't like KB. You've made your point. Could it be that Kyle's beating your driver week in, week out?

By the way, who is your favorite driver? I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:54 AM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,989,888 times
Reputation: 18050
Klye Bush is one of the fastest drivers out there;face it.All teh otehr drivers in the cup recognise this;just some fans think they know better.
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