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Old 04-10-2014, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
983 posts, read 1,367,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
Of course,they wouldn't be allowed to race a car with a Dallara chassis. In F1, the constructor must design and construct the chassis.

I agree that they would probably get an engine from an outside source.

Because the chassis and engine are an integrated unit, they would probably have to select an engine before they designed the chassis.
HRT ran a chassis developed by Dallara in 2010 and 2011. You certainly can outsource much of the development and part manufacturing process, it's not forbidden anywhere. Teams just need to own the intellectual property rights to the design (clause introduced to avoid customer cars), which is something that can be worked out with whoever they enlist to help.

Can't be 100% certain of the wording because that's governed by the Concorde Agreement, which is private.

And yes, for sure you need to pick engine first in order to get packaging and dimensions right.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:17 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,195 posts, read 41,026,644 times
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The Haas entry to F1 is a done deal!

I look forward to an American presence and hope to see them do well.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
983 posts, read 1,367,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
The Haas entry to F1 is a done deal!

I look forward to an American presence and hope to see them do well.
Excellent news! I feel 2015 is too tight, but who knows. I just hope he will be wise unlike Windsor and Anderson with USGP.
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:49 PM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,311 posts, read 15,366,122 times
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A new team with a Dallara chassis? Maybe they could break HRT's record:

Quote:
in its 39th race, HRT broke the record for the most starts by a constructor without scoring a point.
I am not so hot on the US nationalism thing, being able to chant USA!USA! has never been one of my top thrills. It is good to have more teams in F1, but only if they are mid-pack and better. Giving Caterham and Marussia someone to race with isn't really my goal. It is unlikely a new team would come in at the current Mercedes/Red Bull/Williams/Ferrari/McLaren level, but maybe the Force India/Sauber level. Also, if there was a US driver currently worth beans, he (or, lol, she) would already be in a seat. I guess I would use the 3 recent female Indy drivers (all currently gone) as an example. Sure they apparently had sponsor backing, but none of them were all that great as drivers, more as novelties.

Isn't today the day F1 hears Red Bull's appeal? Should be interesting.

And, hmmm, Ferrari let Stefano Domenicali fall upon his sword and resign. I think that will prove a massive mistake, but I am sure Montezemolo is happy. Domenicali resigning is not going to fix the Ferrari, I think, in fact, it will hinder efforts to fix it.
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:59 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,883,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
The Haas entry to F1 is a done deal!

I look forward to an American presence and hope to see them do well.
Haas said he wants to put an American driver in the seat of his F1 entry. That would be the only reason for me to watch F1. I can't imagine why any American fan would not want one of our own to beat up on those foreign playboy drivers.

We did it back in the sixties at LeMans when we put in a real effort to beat up on the foreigners, no reason why we can't do it again.

If Ford or GM decided they wanted to claim the F1 championship it would be a walk in the park for them.
Chicken farmer Carroll Shelby along with a little help from Ford put those Ferrari's on the trailer back then and F1 would probably be easy for Haas to do the same.

I'd like to see Kyle Larsen in F1 and show those foreigners what fast really is. Pretty sure he could squeeze in a race on an off weekend.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
3,697 posts, read 5,855,716 times
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An awful lot of work to get done to have an competitive entry in 2015:

Rule changes that relax the restrictions on sharing of technology mean that from 2015 Haas could buy virtually everything it needs from an existing team – and in essence would only need to own the IP of its chassis and bodywork. Haas even used the phrase “customer car” at one point.

The whole story: More questions than answers as Haas explains his F1 plans | Adam Cooper's F1 Blog
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:17 AM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,311 posts, read 15,366,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Haas said he wants to put an American driver in the seat of his F1 entry. That would be the only reason for me to watch F1. I can't imagine why any American fan would not want one of our own to beat up on those foreign playboy drivers.
Because it isn't us versus them, it is driver versus driver, team vs team. And, lol, "foreign playboy drivers"? Yes, I am SURE an American driver would just be a good old boy from the heartland who said "shucks" and "ma'am."

And, oooo, Red Bull got slapped back and Ricciardo's disq stands! I am kinda surprised.

Red Bull's Ricciardo appeal dismissed | Planet F1 | Formula One News
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:13 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,195 posts, read 41,026,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
We did it back in the sixties at LeMans when we put in a real effort to beat up on the foreigners, no reason why we can't do it again.

If Ford or GM decided they wanted to claim the F1 championship it would be a walk in the park for them.
Chicken farmer Carroll Shelby along with a little help from Ford put those Ferrari's on the trailer back then and F1 would probably be easy for Haas to do the same.

I think you're underestimating the task Haas faces by a wide margin. Late '60s endurance racing was much less a technical/aero challenge than F1 today. Ford had the option of using the slow turning big blocks that would run forever, that option doesn't exist in F1 and crediting only Shelby and Ford glosses over the work that had already been done by Eric Broadley's Lola team upon which the early GT40s were based. Even if Haas lands an engine deal with current powerhouse Mercedes Benz the chassis will still be a challenge.

IF it was easy the very experienced McLaren wouldn't have performed so poorly last year nor Ferrari this year and the F1 team run by Penske would surely have been more successful than it was. And don't forget Toyota, despite having what was reportedly the largest budget in F! and engineering capabilities at least on the same level as GM and Ford they were notably unsuccessful in F1.
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:57 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,883,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
I think you're underestimating the task Haas faces by a wide margin. Late '60s endurance racing was much less a technical/aero challenge than F1 today. Ford had the option of using the slow turning big blocks that would run forever, that option doesn't exist in F1 and crediting only Shelby and Ford glosses over the work that had already been done by Eric Broadley's Lola team upon which the early GT40s were based. Even if Haas lands an engine deal with current powerhouse Mercedes Benz the chassis will still be a challenge.

IF it was easy the very experienced McLaren wouldn't have performed so poorly last year nor Ferrari this year and the F1 team run by Penske would surely have been more successful than it was. And don't forget Toyota, despite having what was reportedly the largest budget in F! and engineering capabilities at least on the same level as GM and Ford they were notably unsuccessful in F1.
I really don't know much about Gene Haas but I have discovered that he is not a lightweight with some big ideas and no background or cash.

Here he is talking about why he want to be in F1. (from NASCAR news)

The motivation for Gene Haas is two-fold. Primarily, Haas, who owns one the largest CNC tool manufacturing operations, wants to market his products globally and F1 will allow him to "enhance his branding" on a greater scale than NASCAR, which is limited to North America. "The ultimate goal is to take the image of Haas Automation and turn it into a brand that is desired and high-quality and known throughout the world," Haas said. "The ultimate goal would be to double our sales for Haas Automation. I think it's going to be positive. As an indicator, I'm using the relationship with NASCAR that we have here including the brands we have in the United States. We have a very good market share, good market penetration and it's as simple as to replicate that overseas."
Secondly, despite short-lived effort of the USF1 team, Haas is convinced that an American-based team can compete against the established F1 juggernauts of Europe. Haas feels that with the current F1 rules packages, the timing is right for an aspiring team to enter the series and dispel the notion that "Americans can't do it".
"I'm here to prove that we can do it, and we can do it with a budget and we can be efficient at it and we can win at it," Haas said. "That's what I'm going to try. I'm not saying that I'm better than anybody else. I just have a different way of doing it, and people that I work with think differently. That, I guess, is going to be the secret to our success in this business. We're going to spend our money wisely. We're going to do it with an American flair for design and efficiencies, and that's how we're going to control our costs. I don't -- we're not going to be a European-led team. We're going to be an American-led team and we'll do it the way we think is the most efficient. Yes, this is an ambitious undertaking for Haas. He wasn't joking when asked about his budget that "it's going to be billions and billions" to be operational. And he has just over a month to inform the FIA as to whether Haas Formula intends to race in 2015 or 2016. Certainly, Haas' timetable will depend on the support of his technical partners. Similar to his introduction to NASCAR where he relied on Hendrick Motorsports to get up to speed, Haas will rely on the relationship of his potential F1 partners as well.
Formula Haas' home base will be in Kannapolis, N.C. adjacent to the existing Stewart-Haas Racing shop. The company is currently adding 150,000 sq. ft. With Haas Automation satellites in Brussels and Shanghai, there is already a global base, but Haas expects to have a secondary shop in either Germany or Italy likely dependent on whether he partners with Mercedes or Ferrari. Haas will likely use Dallara for his chassis, but his eventual goal is to develop the components to compete for the Constructors championship.
As for prospective drivers, in the beginning Haas would like to use racers that are already familiar with the current engine rules package then eventually phase in American talent. Formula Haas team principal Guenther Steiner would prefer not entertainment drivers searching for buy rides but rely on racers with raw talent. For now, Haas intends on maintaining a clean car free of sponsorship outside of the Haas brand. He believes that any additional support would "dilute" his marketing strategy. However, a five-year plan is in place to "make this a profitable enterprise" and that will involve additional sponsors in order "to make money and compete".(Motorsport)(4-15-2014)
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:05 PM
 
Location: 59°N
5,218 posts, read 5,877,755 times
Reputation: 4008
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
I think you're underestimating the task Haas faces by a wide margin. Late '60s endurance racing was much less a technical/aero challenge than F1 today. Ford had the option of using the slow turning big blocks that would run forever, that option doesn't exist in F1 and crediting only Shelby and Ford glosses over the work that had already been done by Eric Broadley's Lola team upon which the early GT40s were based. Even if Haas lands an engine deal with current powerhouse Mercedes Benz the chassis will still be a challenge.

IF it was easy the very experienced McLaren wouldn't have performed so poorly last year nor Ferrari this year and the F1 team run by Penske would surely have been more successful than it was. And don't forget Toyota, despite having what was reportedly the largest budget in F! and engineering capabilities at least on the same level as GM and Ford they were notably unsuccessful in F1.
Of course. Haas will be a small fish. I took Mercedes four seasons to get where they are now and they have plenty of experience and resources. I think Haas will end up like HRT
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