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Old 03-15-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: 59N
5,217 posts, read 5,873,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post
Yeah street courses are a bad idea. Monaco is a terrible course but remains because of tradition. The money sink involved in closing those streets in London is a bit hard to fathom. No one there would be happy about it.
I like watching the onboard footage from Monaco and the atmosphere is unrivaled in F1 (especially as spectator). I hate the Singapore night race. What an awful circuit. The Valencia street circuit was even worse, though.

Some semi-street circuits are good. Montreal is one of my favorites on the calendar.

Last edited by cmptrwlt; 03-15-2014 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:54 PM
 
Location: 59N
5,217 posts, read 5,873,735 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Some of the big road courses in Europe have great reputations because they are long but that's all they are. What is possibly good as far as spectating in almost seeing a race on an LeMans 8 mile track or the 14 mile Nurburgring.

The 24 hrs of LeMans is a spectacle as are some others rather than a good racing venue.
Yes, stick to the boring ovals and the overpacked and overlong crash fest called NASCAR. That is what I call a true spectacle.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:36 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,874,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmptrwlt View Post
Yes, stick to the boring ovals and the overpacked and overlong crash fest called NASCAR. That is what I call a true spectacle.
Do you mean those races where passing occurs? Yes they can get kind of boring watching two, three , four cars swap the lead.
It's especially boring when a car starts in the back of the field and works it's way to the front for a win. Lucky for you that you will never get bored watching that happen in F1.
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:15 AM
 
1,623 posts, read 4,335,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
You could not be more wrong, sponsors my pay for the race teams and cars but it's fans in the seats that makes a race series successful.
You may not remember when the best F1 drivers in the world were racing at the Glen along with 100,000 die hard fans cheering from the infield.
Cow pasture my ass, how many miles have you driven at the Glen?
People in sports coats and cocktail dresses are not race fans they are spectacle fans.People sitting in their yachts in Monoco while the race goes on are not racing fans, they are there because it's Monaco just like they will be in London because it's a spectacle.

Lets be honest there are many non racing fans who hear F1 and they believe it is the best form of racing in the world and yet they have never attend a race in their lives.

Just like the Derby is the best HR in the world because it's a spectacle.

Who cars about India or China having an F1 race? That has nothing to do about real racing but how much money Eccelstone can dupe out of them.

Please stop with your nonsense replys.
F1 is probably the series that most disrespects its fans and caters to sponsors than any other series. They get away with it because most countries only get 1 race and they basically have no competition. The power brokers in F1 only care about money, who will bring in the most money. Having a great, competitive race and good fan experience is WAY low on their priority list.

The reason why Watkins Glen or Sonoma don't have F1 events is because promoters cannot make the economics work. It isn't about sell outs, it is really about sponsors willing to put up so much money that F1 can't turn it down.

Just look at the U.S.G.P. in Austin. It's there because the state of Texas is ponying up $250M and one of the largest auto dealers in the state is paying up to make it happen. The U.S.G.P. had great races at Watkins Glen and Long Beach, but F1 left because they could get stupid money elsewhere and those promoters had NASCAR and CART to soften the blow.

As for hotels, I don't think that is a big deal. Indy doesn't have any Four Seasons/Ritz Carlton type hotels (I think the Hyatt is about as fancy as it gets), but the powerbrokers and jetsetters just flew in helicopters from Chicago to the Speedway on a daily basis. Which is so weird, because Roger Penske, a billionaire himself, stays in the on-site motel for the Indy 500 and Brickyard 400.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:48 PM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,304 posts, read 15,356,670 times
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All of motorsports cater to sponsors and TV first and fans onsite last - because that is where the money is and motorsport, and F1 in particular, are EXPENSIVE. The big money is not made by how many fans are in the stands and the majority of F1 races LOSE money for the track/promoter, between Bernie's outrageous fees and the other costs. Elaborate accounting goes on to show a race "making" money, including hotels, airfare, restaurants, tourism boosts from on-air TV spots, etc. You can lament it all you want, but it is the modern reality.

Most of the old road race tracks in the US fail modern open wheel safety requirements - Watkins Glen is basically a regional track and not much else anymore. In its heyday it was a great track and all of the series came there - hardly a spring/summer/fall weekend went by without a major race. Not so much now, lots of festivals and private driving schools.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:05 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,874,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post

Most of the old road race tracks in the US fail modern open wheel safety requirements - Watkins Glen is basically a regional track and not much else anymore. In its heyday it was a great track and all of the series came there - hardly a spring/summer/fall weekend went by without a major race. Not so much now, lots of festivals and private driving schools.
I don't know the last time you were at Watkins Glen but it is hardly a regional only road course. The NASCAR weekend brings more than 100k spectators, The IMSA Tudor Championship runs the Glen as do many SCCA races not to mention the SVRA / Zippo vintage fall festival which draws the largest field of any of the Vintage series. Watkins Glen is owned by International Speedway corp which also owns Daytona and other tracks.

I would say you know as much about Watkins Glen as I do about the tracks on the west coast, which is not very much.

Probably the only reason F1 does not run at the Glen is because ISC will never pay Eccelstone the foolish amounts of money he demands. ISC is in the business of making money not giving it away for something they don't need.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Fairfax, Va
245 posts, read 256,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
I don't know the last time you were at Watkins Glen but it is hardly a regional only road course. The NASCAR weekend brings more than 100k spectators, The IMSA Tudor Championship runs the Glen as do many SCCA races not to mention the SVRA / Zippo vintage fall festival which draws the largest field of any of the Vintage series. Watkins Glen is owned by International Speedway corp which also owns Daytona and other tracks.

I would say you know as much about Watkins Glen as I do about the tracks on the west coast, which is not very much.

Probably the only reason F1 does not run at the Glen is because ISC will never pay Eccelstone the foolish amounts of money he demands. ISC is in the business of making money not giving it away for something they don't need.
Lewis Hamilton in 2012 drove a nascar on the glen and Tony Stewart drove an f1. I think it can work but I remember watching some high speed crashed in the 90's GTP that could've killed the drivers. Safety is the concern IMO
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:41 PM
 
890 posts, read 1,532,993 times
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You guys do know that Watkins Glen was home to the US Grand Prix in the 1960s up to 1980 right? The specifics escape me, but as the cars got faster, WG had problems keeping up with some safety requirements. Add that to not paying their debts and you have why F1 didn't go back. I do agree that ISC would never pay the money to bring F1 there again. It would be a losing proposition.

For what it's worth, I was in Long Beach, CA this week. The course is all setup for the Grand Prix next week (yes, I know its Indycar). They had press day on the 1st and there were some sports cars going around. I have to say for the life of me I don't understand why anyone would pay to watch a race on a street circuit. At best you could only see a couple hundred yards of the track.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
3,692 posts, read 5,851,708 times
Reputation: 5871
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
........
Probably the only reason F1 does not run at the Glen is because ISC will never pay Eccelstone the foolish amounts of money he demands. ISC is in the business of making money not giving it away for something they don't need.
There is another reason. Watkins Glen would have to spend at least 150 million dollars for improvements to meet today's F1 standards.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:34 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,189 posts, read 41,002,133 times
Reputation: 29918
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbd View Post
You guys do know that Watkins Glen was home to the US Grand Prix in the 1960s up to 1980 right? The specifics escape me, but as the cars got faster, WG had problems keeping up with some safety requirements. Add that to not paying their debts and you have why F1 didn't go back. I do agree that ISC would never pay the money to bring F1 there again. It would be a losing proposition.

For what it's worth, I was in Long Beach, CA this week. The course is all setup for the Grand Prix next week (yes, I know its Indycar). They had press day on the 1st and there were some sports cars going around. I have to say for the life of me I don't understand why anyone would pay to watch a race on a street circuit. At best you could only see a couple hundred yards of the track.
The same can be said for spots at the Glen and many other tracks, street circuit or purpose built. While you may well see the race better on TV siting home will never duplicate the atmosphere at the track and the proliferation of JumboTrons at many tracks can give you the best of both worlds. It may be a short stretch but I'd certainly pay to be sitting at the top of Eau Rouge.
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