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Old 07-29-2015, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,454 posts, read 15,855,074 times
Reputation: 9914

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
dont forget that the original chase format was done because matt kennseth won the championship with only one win the entire season, and the fans complained.
No that was a scapegoat reason. I watched NASCAR for the first time in 1998 and Gordon had it wrapped up in November pretty much. Kenseth was the scapegoat despite having what 20+ top tens that session.
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:43 PM
 
9,471 posts, read 7,141,437 times
Reputation: 12234
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
What if all the teams already qualified for the Chase decided to sit out the next restrictor plate race? They don't need the money so why risk totaling another car. They would probably save more money than they could make.

It would **** off the fans and embarrass NASCAR plus Gordon and a lot of others would have a better chance of making the Chase with a win.
Well, the next plate race is in the chase.. So, don't think that would go over too well with the drivers at all, since they'd all be immediately eliminated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
See the fall 2000 race at New Hampshire for instance where Jeff Burton lead the race damn near flag to flag, the first and only time since the 1970's the restrictor plate was used outside of Daytona and Talledega.
There was no 'damn near' to that.. He DID lead flag to flag. I remember watching that snooze-fest of a race.

Conversely, one of the BEST races I recall seeing was, I believe the spring Talladega race in 1997.. Mark Martin won, and it was a caution free race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
When you dominate a season-long championship, you deserve to win said championship. And predictions have nothing to do with it. I'm sure everyone thought the 48 was going to win the title again last year, and he wasn't even close. Big deal. Did anyone think guys like Benny Parsons or Bobby Isaac had a shot to win their championships when guys like Petty and Pearson were still in their prime? Do you even know who these guys are?
I agree. I prefer the pre-chase points system.. Even though you did, at times, have people clinch the championship 1 or 2 weeks before the final race. And, we would have missed some excitement, like the 2011 duel between Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards.. "Old Style" champs would have been

2014 - Jeff Gordon
2013 - Jimmie Johnson
2012 - Brad Keselowski
2011 - Carl Edwards
2010 - Kevin Harvick
2009 - Jimmie Johnson (3 drivers would have been challenging, Johnson, Gordon and Stewart)
2008 - Carl Edwards (Jimmie Johnson would have finished 16 'old' points back)
2007 - Jeff Gordon
2006 - Jimmie Johnson (4 points over Matt Kenseth)
2005 - Tony Stewart
2004 - Jeff Gordon (Johnson would have been close)

So.. All things told.. Jeff Gordon would have tied Earnhardt and Petty with 7 championships. Carl Edwards would be a 2 time champ.. Assuming of course, how people raced wouldn't have changed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i watched those guys do the things they did, davey allison driving with a broken arm, heck back in those days one driver raced right after he got his cast put on(i forget which driver though). actually had his arm taped to the gear shift. after the race he cut the cast off himself, and fashioned a new one for the next race. he did this each week until he developed a cast that was lightweight enough for him to use in the race, and allowed him the use of his hand.
Ricky Rudd had his eyes taped open at Daytona in 84 or so.. Earnhardt driving with the broken sternum at Watkins Glen.. But.. Back in the day, relief drivers were FAR more common. I think there was one race.. Bristol, perhaps, where DW subbed in for someone, and then had to have someone else sub for him and the car wound up winning the race.

Perhaps, if Davey Allison hadn't had so many head injuries, he'd have made better decisions in the helicopter. That is the thing I really like about the new format, it does give people a chance to sit out for an injury and heal.

And, still, the best TV shot I ever saw was ESPN showing Dick Trickle smoking in the car under a yellow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9fB1IcTD48

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
dont forget that the original chase format was done because matt kennseth won the championship with only one win the entire season, and the fans complained.
That's the popular thing to say, but.. Do you know that the Chase format actually came from Jimmy Spencer? He first brought it up on "Inside Winston Cup" that used to air on Speed.. Pretty much dead on, exactly the format that was used in 2004, he talked about before the season ended in 2003.

I think the reality is that Brian France, who was taking over at that time, wanted to compete with the NFL more, and the idea of having 'playoffs' and not having someone clinch the championship weeks ahead of time.
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Hickory, NC
1,143 posts, read 1,018,128 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
first off its not my system, its nascars. and second, if the guy that won 35 races in a row cant finish the deal, then there is something wrong with him not me.
This is literally one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

It is your system, because you're defending it. Also, do you not see the difference between forcing a 4 way battle at Homestead each year and letting it happen naturally over the course of a season? I guarantee within one or two years, the season ending will be ho-hum again, because it's the same every year. It's like the IRL finishes at 1.5 mile tracks. Every single time they went to tracks like that, the winning margin was less than 1 car length. It got to a point that even THOSE types of finishes became mundane.

And stop comparing baseball to racing. TWO. DIFFERENT. SPORTS. Not sure why I'm wasting my time responding to trolls like you though.
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Old 08-02-2015, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Hickory, NC
1,143 posts, read 1,018,128 times
Reputation: 1570
Riddle me this rbohm, had Newman beat Harvick last year and not won the race (hell, even if he HAD won the race), would he have been a worthy NASCAR Champion?
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Old 08-02-2015, 11:09 AM
 
32,539 posts, read 26,449,683 times
Reputation: 19178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
This is literally one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

It is your system, because you're defending it. Also, do you not see the difference between forcing a 4 way battle at Homestead each year and letting it happen naturally over the course of a season? I guarantee within one or two years, the season ending will be ho-hum again, because it's the same every year. It's like the IRL finishes at 1.5 mile tracks. Every single time they went to tracks like that, the winning margin was less than 1 car length. It got to a point that even THOSE types of finishes became mundane.

And stop comparing baseball to racing. TWO. DIFFERENT. SPORTS. Not sure why I'm wasting my time responding to trolls like you though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Riddle me this rbohm, had Newman beat Harvick last year and not won the race (hell, even if he HAD won the race), would he have been a worthy NASCAR Champion?
ok first, lets look at what you mean by a troll. i have several thousand posts, you have just over 500. nice try but you fail on that point.

second i am defending nascar decision to try and create a system where the champion is crowned in the last race of the season, but has competition in that last race. again i did not create the system, thus it is NOT my system regardless of what you think.

third, had newman beat harvick last year and not won the race, yes he would have been a worthy champion because he would have EARNED the championship as PER THE RULES.

fourth i am not comparing nascar to baseball, or any other sport, per say, but i am comparing the championship set up that nascar has now to what is used in other sports. baseball has a playoff system, so does basketball and football. well now nascar has a playoff system as well, live with it.

one of the things i have always liked about auto racing is that you can have the best equipment, the best driver, the best crew, make all the right decisions, and lose the race because a 50 cent part failed despite your best efforts to weed out defective parts.

one of the things i have always disliked about racing is that with a season long championship series, too many times the champion is crowned with basically two races left in the season, so there is no drama left for the last race of the season. the champion basically had to just get by to win the championship.

now however, you have to EARN the championship at the end of the season. like baseball, football, basketball, etc. you have to earn your way into the playoffs. and once there you still cannot coast your way through, you have to earn your way along to keep moving to the championship race, where you will face three other competitors who all have an equal chance to win the championship.

that means you HAVE to put it all on the line, you cant just run 18th and be crowned champion. you have to put your best effort out there for the entire race. it really does make for a better championship event because there is now an element of intrigue in the race. such as what happens if the odds on favorite get tangled up with a back marker? what happens if all four championship drivers have issues all race long and they are struggling in the middle of the pack? what happens if all four drivers run together all race long, regardless of where they are in the pack?

i am betting that you have been so conditioned for years of watching nascar, and having the points leader being the champion despite not having any real competition at the end of the season because they amasses such a points lead that they dont have to do much to win the season title.

but let me put it another way. lets say you are a baseball fan, and MLB decided that their champion next year would be the one with the best record in both leagues, and thus no more playoffs, and no more world series, is that acceptable to you? probably not. so why is it unacceptable to you that nascar has developed a play off system?
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Old 08-02-2015, 03:20 PM
 
32,539 posts, read 26,449,683 times
Reputation: 19178
so kyle busch ran out of fuel with about 1/2 a lap to go and finished 21st today, still outside the top thirty in points with what five races left?
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,693 posts, read 4,243,614 times
Reputation: 4645
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
so kyle busch ran out of fuel with about 1/2 a lap to go and finished 21st today, still outside the top thirty in points with what five races left?
Yes... but the drivers he is trying to catch are going to consistently finish 30 plus so he still made up points (I think). I think he is going to make the top 30 easily unless he has a couple DNFs.
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:59 PM
 
32,539 posts, read 26,449,683 times
Reputation: 19178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Yes... but the drivers he is trying to catch are going to consistently finish 30 plus so he still made up points (I think). I think he is going to make the top 30 easily unless he has a couple DNFs.
i agree, he only has to pick up 13 more points to get to 30th, and that should be done next week. but there is still the possibility that he does have a couple more DNFs that spoil his season.
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,454 posts, read 15,855,074 times
Reputation: 9914
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i agree, he only has to pick up 13 more points to get to 30th, and that should be done next week. but there is still the possibility that he does have a couple more DNFs that spoil his season.
Kyle Busch has to do something he isn't good at doing, points racing. He has to get the top 10's and top 5's and not try to always go for the W the next few weeks. If he can do that, honestly he may be unbeatable in the chase. And this comes from a "Busch hater."
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Old 08-02-2015, 10:29 PM
 
32,539 posts, read 26,449,683 times
Reputation: 19178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Kyle Busch has to do something he isn't good at doing, points racing. He has to get the top 10's and top 5's and not try to always go for the W the next few weeks. If he can do that, honestly he may be unbeatable in the chase. And this comes from a "Busch hater."
i rather disagree here. why? because busch has to do what got him to where he is right now, and that is trying to garner as many points as possible. if he tries to change horses in midstream as it were, he may end up not getting to the chase.
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