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Old 09-07-2015, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
3,687 posts, read 5,850,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
I'd still rather see a team that does a better job than the others dominate rather than lame ass attempts at equalizing the field by rulebook. F1 is supposed to be cutting edge, there are plenty of spec car series for those who don't want to innovate.
The problem is the present F1 rules DO NOT allow innovation. Mercedes had an innovative idea with their initial engine design which has given them their huge advantage.

Engine development is so restricted that if somebody else has an innovative idea they aren't allowed to implement it. They are essentially stuck with their initial design plus a few minor changes. The current regulations are stifling innovation.

Unless something changes, Mercedes powered cars, probably the factory team because of their huge budget advantage over their customer teams, will dominate until a new engine/power unit formula is implemented. When's that, 2020?.

Back when Red Bull had an advantage because of their innovative aerodynamic devices, there were no rules that prevented competitors from copying them, standard procedure in motor racing, or implementing newer innovative ideas of their own. (Actually, they didn't need to do so because the FIA outlawed most of what Red Bull was doing.)

It's nice to be “pure” but when spectators and especially TV viewers are abandoning ship in an already increasingly tough market for motor racing, it's time to do something.
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Old 09-08-2015, 07:13 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,182 posts, read 40,994,056 times
Reputation: 29918
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
The problem is the present F1 rules DO NOT allow innovation. Mercedes had an innovative idea with their initial engine design which has given them their huge advantage.

Engine development is so restricted that if somebody else has an innovative idea they aren't allowed to implement it. They are essentially stuck with their initial design plus a few minor changes. The current regulations are stifling innovation.

Unless something changes, Mercedes powered cars, probably the factory team because of their huge budget advantage over their customer teams, will dominate until a new engine/power unit formula is implemented. When's that, 2020?.

Back when Red Bull had an advantage because of their innovative aerodynamic devices, there were no rules that prevented competitors from copying them, standard procedure in motor racing, or implementing newer innovative ideas of their own. (Actually, they didn't need to do so because the FIA outlawed most of what Red Bull was doing.)

It's nice to be “pure” but when spectators and especially TV viewers are abandoning ship in an already increasingly tough market for motor racing, it's time to do something.
I agree, I think today's rules leave much to be desired, I just fear the FIA heading farther down the (IMO) wrong path if they panic and head ever closer towards a spec car. I don't like things like rev limits, number of cylinders, etc. specified by rule at all. I favor a series where if a team can make an engine live at 25,000 RPM, let them, or if they believe they can build a V-16 that will work, let them. Costs are no doubt an issue but I believe cutting down some of the allowable aero tricks could cut them quite a bit, tunnel time ain't cheap and those with the $$$ reportedly run them 24/7. Removing the energy recovery systems would also cut development/production costs. I think it's silly to pretend they make the sport 'green' considering how much energy is consumed by the wind tunnels and flying the entire circus to tracks all around the world.
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:29 PM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,298 posts, read 15,353,559 times
Reputation: 9473
Redbull announces Ferrari will be their 2016 engine supplier. Hmm, wonder how they will like be a customer team?
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Old 09-14-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Hickory, NC
1,141 posts, read 1,013,570 times
Reputation: 1568
They were already an engine customer...those Renault engines are not designed by Red Bull.
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Hickory, NC
1,141 posts, read 1,013,570 times
Reputation: 1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
The problem is the present F1 rules DO NOT allow innovation. Mercedes had an innovative idea with their initial engine design which has given them their huge advantage.

Engine development is so restricted that if somebody else has an innovative idea they aren't allowed to implement it. They are essentially stuck with their initial design plus a few minor changes. The current regulations are stifling innovation.

Unless something changes, Mercedes powered cars, probably the factory team because of their huge budget advantage over their customer teams, will dominate until a new engine/power unit formula is implemented. When's that, 2020?.

Back when Red Bull had an advantage because of their innovative aerodynamic devices, there were no rules that prevented competitors from copying them, standard procedure in motor racing, or implementing newer innovative ideas of their own. (Actually, they didn't need to do so because the FIA outlawed most of what Red Bull was doing.)
Spot on.

The "power unit" thing is the problem. Why must everyone run a V6 hybrid? Let the teams/engine manufacturers run whatever gets them to the finish line first. Let them change engine designs when they want to. Is it expensive? Yes, it's Formula 1. It has been the cutting edge of technology for 50+ years. If you don't want to spend as much, stick with DTM or try a spec series like Indycar or NASCAR.

Where is the innovation? Where is the new technology? This is what F1 is all about.
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:09 AM
Status: "0-0-2 Game On!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: The beautiful Rogue Valley, Oregon
7,298 posts, read 15,353,559 times
Reputation: 9473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
They were already an engine customer...those Renault engines are not designed by Red Bull.
Yes, but they (and Toro Rosso) were Renault's A1 team. Now they are going to be a customer team and second to the factory team and right up there with Sauber and Manor, lol.
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:15 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,871,850 times
Reputation: 11886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
Spot on.

The "power unit" thing is the problem. Why must everyone run a V6 hybrid? Let the teams/engine manufacturers run whatever gets them to the finish line first. Let them change engine designs when they want to. Is it expensive? Yes, it's Formula 1. It has been the cutting edge of technology for 50+ years. If you don't want to spend as much, stick with DTM or try a spec series like Indycar or NASCAR.

Where is the innovation? Where is the new technology? This is what F1 is all about.
You're absolutely correct if you want to see competition and 12-20 different winners each year then you are watching the wrong motor sport.
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:21 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,182 posts, read 40,994,056 times
Reputation: 29918
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal View Post
Yes, but they (and Toro Rosso) were Renault's A1 team. Now they are going to be a customer team and second to the factory team and right up there with Sauber and Manor, lol.
And HAAS!

Looking forward to seeing an American team join the circus.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Hickory, NC
1,141 posts, read 1,013,570 times
Reputation: 1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
You're absolutely correct if you want to see competition and 12-20 different winners each year then you are watching the wrong motor sport.
Unfortunately, that is the case. Mercedes has to punch themselves in the nuts in order to find a way to lose a race. This is completely different than Ferrari's domination in the early 2000s, as they had the best driver on the grid, combined with the best car (which they had to continually evolve, since there were few/no restrictions about engine development or aero changes in the middle of the year).

Even when Alonso won in 2005 and 2006, it was by slim margins over Ferrari and Schumacher. Williams BMW wasn't far behind in the early 2000s as well, if the engines had held up, Montoya might have been champ one year. He was easily as quick as Schumacher as far as pure speed goes. McLaren and Raikkonen were also crazy quick in the early-mid 2000s.
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Old 09-16-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,182 posts, read 40,994,056 times
Reputation: 29918
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
You're absolutely correct if you want to see competition and 12-20 different winners each year then you are watching the wrong motor sport.
Not 15-20 winners but for competition and good racing I'll take MotoGP.
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