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Old 01-28-2016, 03:16 PM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,094,161 times
Reputation: 12202

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post
If the field is frozen the second a yellow comes out all the free pass non-sense is solved. No reason to keep it now except is allows 'stars' to get back into a race they are out of.
Not really, because it eliminated the 'racing back to the caution'... Which was simply a synonym for the 'gentleman's agreement' that the leader would let lap down cars get their lap back.

The free pass.. Honestly.. I have little problem with. I did like it better when it started where it was not in effect for the last 10 laps.

Safety has to trump all, and ending racing to the caution was a safety move. I hope that noone really wants to see a return to the days of 30 some-odd cars flying down pit road at 140 mph.

The free pass is one car.. The first car 1 lap down. In olden days, that everyone seems to love so much.. It wasn't uncommon for 5 to 10 cars to get back on the lead lap when the leader would slow down for the caution flag. So, this gift that people complain about is actually MORE restricted than it was in the past. because someone who is 2 laps down, unless it's at the very start of the race or another odd circumstance.. They're not getting their laps back. In olden times.. They could much easier.

The wave-around.. You know.. That I don't particularly like. Leader having to start mid pack actually made things much more exciting.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:10 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,313,001 times
Reputation: 8896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Not really, because it eliminated the 'racing back to the caution'... Which was simply a synonym for the 'gentleman's agreement' that the leader would let lap down cars get their lap back.

The free pass.. Honestly.. I have little problem with. I did like it better when it started where it was not in effect for the last 10 laps.

Safety has to trump all, and ending racing to the caution was a safety move. I hope that noone really wants to see a return to the days of 30 some-odd cars flying down pit road at 140 mph.

The free pass is one car.. The first car 1 lap down. In olden days, that everyone seems to love so much.. It wasn't uncommon for 5 to 10 cars to get back on the lead lap when the leader would slow down for the caution flag. So, this gift that people complain about is actually MORE restricted than it was in the past. because someone who is 2 laps down, unless it's at the very start of the race or another odd circumstance.. They're not getting their laps back. In olden times.. They could much easier.

The wave-around.. You know.. That I don't particularly like. Leader having to start mid pack actually made things much more exciting.
I kind of miss those old pit stops, they were exciting as hell. While making a half-ass attempt to support my point to PDD by searching You Tube I stumbled across the footage of the Rudd/Elliot pit road accident. That was awful and like you said safety trumps all.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:33 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,313,001 times
Reputation: 8896
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
This has nothing to do with anybody's hat. This is C-D where opinions are the order of the day, no facts are ever presented.

My opinion is just as valid as your opinion. That being said there is no denying that NASCAR loves to control the finish of the race. They may not be able to determine the winners but they certainly can determine who won't win.

BTW I have been attending NASCAR races since 1956 so I am not a newbie fan. I know a little about building engines so I certainly knows what chokes an engine. Your not talking to one of the kids in the neighborhood.

I have never used that tin foil hat comment. I can't think of anything more immature.

When I read a person's conspiracy "opinion" the first thing I think is if this were true why doesn't the #88 have a championship. After all he is the sport's current most popular driver and IMO most Sr fans defaulted to Jr after the accident. So when I hear the conspiracies fly, the tin foil hat wisecrack will soon follow.
Top tier teams are such for a reason and over coming adversity is a common strength amongst them, it's a mindset. Remember when #3 rolled his car, got out, realized it was still driveable, and got back in and drove it to pit road. How many other driver's would have that mindset to do that?


Perhaps you were a bit confused because your statement was "What are you gonna tell me next, restrictor plates are used to slow the cars down?"
I can't think of any other function a restrictor place would perform on a racecar and wouldn't be much good for anything other than carrying multiple ice cream cones at once from the concession stand.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:34 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,874,703 times
Reputation: 11886
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post


Perhaps you were a bit confused because your statement was "What are you gonna tell me next, restrictor plates are used to slow the cars down?"
I can't think of any other function a restrictor place would perform on a racecar and wouldn't be much good for anything other than carrying multiple ice cream cones at once from the concession stand.
I can see your not a gear head, you're kind of clueless when it comes to how HP effects high speed racing.

Kind of pointless to debate with you any longer so I won't.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,628 posts, read 4,224,936 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Not really, because it eliminated the 'racing back to the caution'... Which was simply a synonym for the 'gentleman's agreement' that the leader would let lap down cars get their lap back.

The free pass.. Honestly.. I have little problem with. I did like it better when it started where it was not in effect for the last 10 laps.

Safety has to trump all, and ending racing to the caution was a safety move. I hope that noone really wants to see a return to the days of 30 some-odd cars flying down pit road at 140 mph.

The free pass is one car.. The first car 1 lap down. In olden days, that everyone seems to love so much.. It wasn't uncommon for 5 to 10 cars to get back on the lead lap when the leader would slow down for the caution flag. So, this gift that people complain about is actually MORE restricted than it was in the past. because someone who is 2 laps down, unless it's at the very start of the race or another odd circumstance.. They're not getting their laps back. In olden times.. They could much easier.

The wave-around.. You know.. That I don't particularly like. Leader having to start mid pack actually made things much more exciting.
Agreed.
It is much harder today to get your lap back than it was years ago. You have only a small window to get your lap back due to caution whereas before, if you kept the leader in sight you had a great chance to get your lap back... Of course the wave around helps but is only good if there are multiple cautions in a row.
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Old 01-29-2016, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Alabama
668 posts, read 467,505 times
Reputation: 1063
Bill Nye: 'If NASCAR embraced electric cars it could change the world' | Fox News
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Old 01-29-2016, 09:48 AM
 
32,470 posts, read 26,347,895 times
Reputation: 19111
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
I can see your not a gear head, you're kind of clueless when it comes to how HP effects high speed racing.

Kind of pointless to debate with you any longer so I won't.
actually YOU are the that is rather clueless. remember that the restrictor plates have four 29/32nds openings, where as the throttle bodies have four openings of about 1 3/4". its rather like taking a marathon runner, and making him breathe through four soda straws for 26 miles of running. these engines have been dynoed at about 800 or so hp without a restrictor plate, but once that restrictor plate is installed, the hp drops to about 450 or so.

what that means is, for those who dont know, that these engines have a hard time accelerating a 3500lbs stock car to speed in less than one full lap of daytona or talledega. it also means that maximum engine rpm will generally cap at about 7500-8000 rpm, where as an unrestricted engine will turn closer to 10,000 rpm when run wide open. and that really does cut down the speed these guys can run.

i mean really, you dont see anyone making a single qualifying run, since restrictor plates were mandated, of much over 200mph, a far cry from bill elliots record of 210 at daytona, and 212 at talledega.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:32 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,874,703 times
Reputation: 11886
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
actually YOU are the that is rather clueless. remember that the restrictor plates have four 29/32nds openings, where as the throttle bodies have four openings of about 1 3/4". its rather like taking a marathon runner, and making him breathe through four soda straws for 26 miles of running. these engines have been dynoed at about 800 or so hp without a restrictor plate, but once that restrictor plate is installed, the hp drops to about 450 or so.

what that means is, for those who dont know, that these engines have a hard time accelerating a 3500lbs stock car to speed in less than one full lap of daytona or talledega. it also means that maximum engine rpm will generally cap at about 7500-8000 rpm, where as an unrestricted engine will turn closer to 10,000 rpm when run wide open. and that really does cut down the speed these guys can run.

i mean really, you dont see anyone making a single qualifying run, since restrictor plates were mandated, of much over 200mph, a far cry from bill elliots record of 210 at daytona, and 212 at talledega.
A simple gear rule keeps unrestricted cars at any speed NACAR chooses. Nobody is going to run 10,000 rpms all day with today's engines.


For you guys who just refuse to accept the facts. Think about this, Two guys on track at Talladega, Both with the same rear gear that restricts MPH to 200 MPH at 9,500RPMS

The unrestricted car gets up to top speed in one lap. The restricted car takes two laps to get up to top speed but because of low HP can't run 200 by himself settles in at 195 (typical qualifying lap)

Now both cars are running top speed of 200 MPH with the unrestricted car pushing the restrictor car. He pulls out to pass and easily passes the restrictor car which can't run 200 without a push, he falls back and the unrestricted car drives away.

You catching on yet?


So now you have the unrestricted car out front and the restrictor behind, he pulls out and because of low HP fall back.

Now the old days, two unrestricted cars both running 200 mph but the front car is pushing all the air and the drafting car is cruising in the free air. He pulls out and does a slingshot pass and there you go racing like it used to be.

No pack racing to insure multiple car crashes. But if that's what you want that's what you got.


Forget all your safety BS it's all about Pack racing because many fans want crashes as much as Brian France does.

How can they run Atlanta, Michigan without restrictors at 200 MPH and no pack racing and no big one?

I thought you were one of the guys on top of NASCAR, I guess I was wrong.
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
5,066 posts, read 2,186,467 times
Reputation: 4514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Not really, because it eliminated the 'racing back to the caution'... Which was simply a synonym for the 'gentleman's agreement' that the leader would let lap down cars get their lap back.

The free pass.. Honestly.. I have little problem with. I did like it better when it started where it was not in effect for the last 10 laps.

Safety has to trump all, and ending racing to the caution was a safety move. I hope that noone really wants to see a return to the days of 30 some-odd cars flying down pit road at 140 mph.

The free pass is one car.. The first car 1 lap down. In olden days, that everyone seems to love so much.. It wasn't uncommon for 5 to 10 cars to get back on the lead lap when the leader would slow down for the caution flag. So, this gift that people complain about is actually MORE restricted than it was in the past. because someone who is 2 laps down, unless it's at the very start of the race or another odd circumstance.. They're not getting their laps back. In olden times.. They could much easier.

The wave-around.. You know.. That I don't particularly like. Leader having to start mid pack actually made things much more exciting.
Of course it was done for safety. However times have changed and it's no longer needed. As I've said freezing the field removes racing back to the line. There's simply no need for a 'lucky dog' anymore.
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:40 PM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,094,161 times
Reputation: 12202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
When I read a person's conspiracy "opinion" the first thing I think is if this were true why doesn't the #88 have a championship. After all he is the sport's current most popular driver and IMO most Sr fans defaulted to Jr after the accident. So when I hear the conspiracies fly, the tin foil hat wisecrack will soon follow.
Top tier teams are such for a reason and over coming adversity is a common strength amongst them, it's a mindset. Remember when #3 rolled his car, got out, realized it was still driveable, and got back in and drove it to pit road. How many other driver's would have that mindset to do that?


Perhaps you were a bit confused because your statement was "What are you gonna tell me next, restrictor plates are used to slow the cars down?"
I can't think of any other function a restrictor place would perform on a racecar and wouldn't be much good for anything other than carrying multiple ice cream cones at once from the concession stand.
The 88 does have a championship... More than that, I think.. Something is telling me there's another one.. but Dale Jarrett has one in the 88.

Yeah, I know what you meant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
I kind of miss those old pit stops, they were exciting as hell. While making a half-ass attempt to support my point to PDD by searching You Tube I stumbled across the footage of the Rudd/Elliot pit road accident. That was awful and like you said safety trumps all.
I think when they've done it for the All Star race it's been great, and exciting.. But.. That's 1 car and 1 team on pit road at a time.
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