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Old 01-29-2016, 12:43 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,897,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW View Post
Of course it was done for safety. However times have changed and it's no longer needed. As I've said freezing the field removes racing back to the line. There's simply no need for a 'lucky dog' anymore.
It's debatable if the restrictor was ever instituted for safety. But the facts prove out that since the advent of the restrictor plate more cars have been crashed in pack racing then ever were when they were going 200+MPH.

A lot of guys like the big one so they don't find fault with restrictors, that's there choice if they would rather see crashes than good racing.
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Old 01-29-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
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Well I meant the no racing to the line dealy specifically but the restrictor plate was for safety as well. I think the thinking was a bit wrong but I do believe at first it was for safety. Keep the cars under 200MPH because the tracks weren't built to handle those speeds in crashes. At some point it became about 'the big one' and ratings. There are much better solutions now, ones the drivers want, but nascar only sees ratings potential.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:25 PM
 
9,437 posts, read 7,119,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
It's debatable if the restrictor was ever instituted for safety. But the facts prove out that since the advent of the restrictor plate more cars have been crashed in pack racing then ever were when they were going 200+MPH.

A lot of guys like the big one so they don't find fault with restrictors, that's there choice if they would rather see crashes than good racing.
Absolutely it was implemented for safety.. Fan safety. Not competitor safety.

NASCAR, so far as I know, has never had a spectator death in a sanctioned race.. Can anyone confirm or refute that? There have been injuries, but not a death that I can think of. They want to keep it that way.

Imagine Keselowski getting into the stands at Talladega a few years back. Or Kyle Larson. Of course, it was Allison who started it all at 'Dega in 86(?) when he came REAL close to getting into the stands through the catchfence. At least Larson and Edwards.. Sorry, it was Edwards that got up in the fence when Keselowski won. There was little chance they were getting into the stands, as the fences did as designed and threw them back on the track. But, it was scary and close enough that most places upgraded the fences and made them higher and tougher.

Does the restrictor plate continue to exist for fan safety? Yes.. Ish.

They have to slow the cars. 200+ mph they take off. Roof flaps help, but, they're not a cure. But, could they slow the cars better through aero? I think so. Make them driving bricks. Take the handling away and then they have to slow down, you don't have the pack. Will they do that? Probably not, because lots of people love pack racing.. Those that don't, probably wouldn't like a race at a 2.5 mile track that spread the cars out like at a mile and a half track because there'd be little to no passing since everyone would be so far apart.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
A simple gear rule keeps unrestricted cars at any speed NACAR chooses. Nobody is going to run 10,000 rpms all day with today's engines.


For you guys who just refuse to accept the facts. Think about this, Two guys on track at Talladega, Both with the same rear gear that restricts MPH to 200 MPH at 9,500RPMS

The unrestricted car gets up to top speed in one lap. The restricted car takes two laps to get up to top speed but because of low HP can't run 200 by himself settles in at 195 (typical qualifying lap)

Now both cars are running top speed of 200 MPH with the unrestricted car pushing the restrictor car. He pulls out to pass and easily passes the restrictor car which can't run 200 without a push, he falls back and the unrestricted car drives away.

You catching on yet?


So now you have the unrestricted car out front and the restrictor behind, he pulls out and because of low HP fall back.

Now the old days, two unrestricted cars both running 200 mph but the front car is pushing all the air and the drafting car is cruising in the free air. He pulls out and does a slingshot pass and there you go racing like it used to be.

No pack racing to insure multiple car crashes. But if that's what you want that's what you got.


Forget all your safety BS it's all about Pack racing because many fans want crashes as much as Brian France does.

How can they run Atlanta, Michigan without restrictors at 200 MPH and no pack racing and no big one?

I thought you were one of the guys on top of NASCAR, I guess I was wrong.
i get what you are saying, in fact as i have suggested several times in the past, taking away the aerodynamic aids, and running a low rear gear would ALSO slow the cars down. i am no fan of the restrictor plates to be sure, but they WERE instituted to slow the cars down to prevent them from flying up into the catch fence, and possibly going through that fence and into the stands and possibly killing large numbers of fans.

remember when nascar instituted the restrictor plate, and why they did it? to refresh your memory, it was 1970 when the first restrictor plates were used to slow the big block cars, the smaller 358ci motors were exempt.

the second use of restrictor plates came in 1988, after bobby allisons car blew a tire and took out 100ft of catch fencing. nascar tried smaller carbs for the last two super speedway races, but decided it wasnt enough, as noted here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restri...trictor_plates

Quote:
The second use came following the crash of Bobby Allison at the 1987 Winston 500 at Talladega Superspeedway. Allison's Buick LeSabre blew a tire going into the tri-oval at 200 mph (320 km/h), spun around and became airborne, flying tail-first into the catch fencing.[4] While the car did not enter the grandstands it tore down nearly 100 feet of fencing and flying debris injured several spectators. After a summer where the two subsequent superspeedway races were run with smaller carburetors (390 cubic feet per minute (cfm) instead of 830 cfm) proved to be inadequate to sufficiently slow the cars, NASCAR imposed restrictor plates again, this time at the two fastest circuits, both superspeedways: Daytona for all NASCAR-sanctioned races and Talladega for Cup races. The Automobile Racing Club of America also enforced restrictor plates at their events at the two tracks. In 1992, when the Busch Grand National series began racing at Talladega, the plates were implemented, in keeping with their use at Daytona
but again as i have noted MANY TIMES, nascar should take away the aero devices, give the guys old style spoilers, full width in the rear and 3" in height, and half width in front four inches in depth, and make them run something like a 4.56 rear gear. that would let them accelerate like the cars should, and slow the top speed to around 195, and would be beneficial overall because you know the teams would be working hard to build engines that would run 10,000rpm all day long so they could run 200mph. the key of course would be making valve springs that would do the job and live an entire race(hello formula one? can we talk about valve spring technology please?).
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:34 PM
 
9,437 posts, read 7,119,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
but again as i have noted MANY TIMES, nascar should take away the aero devices, give the guys old style spoilers, full width in the rear and 3" in height, and half width in front four inches in depth, and make them run something like a 4.56 rear gear. that would let them accelerate like the cars should, and slow the top speed to around 195, and would be beneficial overall because you know the teams would be working hard to build engines that would run 10,000rpm all day long so they could run 200mph. the key of course would be making valve springs that would do the job and live an entire race(hello formula one? can we talk about valve spring technology please?).
Bah.. I missed the year on Allison's wreck.

But.. as for the 10k RPM.. Look.. They're running it now. They hit 10k RPM at times, and at places like Michigan, they're pretty steady at 9200-10k RPM all day long.

Now.. You have far more engine failures at Michigan because of that, but.. They're doing it. And, as they get more and more used to doing it, you'll have fewer and fewer failures.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit if teams have a specific engine package just for Michigan due to this. Particularly valve springs.

As for the Lucky Dog being out of date.. I don't think so. Whoever said that.. Look.. Crap happens. A speeding on pit road penalty at most tracks puts you a lap down. If you're going to do the side by side restarts, which most people seem to love (Meaning 1-2, not lap down cars to the inside) then you have to have some method of people getting back on the lead lap. Although.. Yeah.. It could be interesting. Speeding on pit road ends your chances of winning.. What was the race a few years ago where they nailed 20 some odd people for speeding? Probably see alot more 'surprise' winners if the rules went that way. Junior seems to be a habitual offender for too fast entering/exiting tho, so..
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
5,066 posts, read 2,190,010 times
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That's simple, stop speeding on pit road. It's very easy to stop doing with the modern cars. They even have lights. Jr is just terrible at it but that's on him. Push too far all time and it catches up with you. I have no problem with crap happens and so you have a bad day. That's the way it goes. Handing out free passes isn't racing, especially if the error is on the driver/crew.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
4,325 posts, read 2,266,392 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
I for one am looking forward to Daytona. I got my hotel but not my race tix yet. With no backstretch, the front stretch tix are more expensive.. most aggravating.. It looks like I will be sitting down low, around turn 4. Can't afford to sit up high unless i go by myself and leave the kids at home..
Well that's nice. You are going to Daytona?
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
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It'll be very interesting about this upcoming NASCAR season.
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Old 02-01-2016, 08:20 PM
 
165 posts, read 235,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Absolutely it was implemented for safety.. Fan safety. Not competitor safety.

NASCAR, so far as I know, has never had a spectator death in a sanctioned race.. Can anyone confirm or refute that? There have been injuries, but not a death that I can think of. They want to keep it that way.

Imagine Keselowski getting into the stands at Talladega a few years back. Or Kyle Larson. Of course, it was Allison who started it all at 'Dega in 86(?) when he came REAL close to getting into the stands through the catchfence. At least Larson and Edwards.. Sorry, it was Edwards that got up in the fence when Keselowski won. There was little chance they were getting into the stands, as the fences did as designed and threw them back on the track. But, it was scary and close enough that most places upgraded the fences and made them higher and tougher.

Does the restrictor plate continue to exist for fan safety? Yes.. Ish.

They have to slow the cars. 200+ mph they take off. Roof flaps help, but, they're not a cure. But, could they slow the cars better through aero? I think so. Make them driving bricks. Take the handling away and then they have to slow down, you don't have the pack. Will they do that? Probably not, because lots of people love pack racing.. Those that don't, probably wouldn't like a race at a 2.5 mile track that spread the cars out like at a mile and a half track because there'd be little to no passing since everyone would be so far apart.

back in the early days there was 1, Columbus Speedway, July 25,1948: Race Day for NASCAR at Columbus, the big boys in town for trials on the 24th Robert Red Byron a points leader is here. Big names of times are ready to race. The Red Byron’s ’39 Ford with Red Vogt as mechanic were sure to win, was the talk. The green flag is dropped and the race is on dust flying everywhere. The Red Byron was running hard! This race today was a 40 lap feature and the point were very important to several drivers, all wanted to by the NASCAR points champion and collect the point’s money as the season comes to a close.Only 3,000 fan’s are gathered, others are on the hill behind the fence tailgating in their pickups with family in tow. As the race laps count off and the Byron has lead since the 17th lap with challengers on his tail, fans move closer to the cattle fence on the hill to cheer their champion to the finish.

The Byron look as though he will win. He’s coming trough the 4th turn, then it happens—a tire explodes, the right front tire!( You know NASCAR circles to the left, no right hand turns in NASCAR.) The Red Byron now was not in a fight for the finish line, but in a fight to control his car, as it drove trough the turn at high speed, heading to the clay bank and barbed wire fence,where fan were huddled watching the race not ten feet behind the fence. The Byron according to witness’s made one last attempt to stop what he knew was happening; he gassed James Roy Brannonthe engine and turned hard left back into other racers on the track. as luck would have it , this didn’t work. The car hit the fence and plowed into the crowd. as the car hit the barbed wire fence posts became like missiles launching as the car moved trough the wire into the crowd. One of the post hit 7 year old Roy Brannon in the head, 16 others were injured. Little Roy Brannon died less than 24 hours later from hemorrhages, at the City Hospital. ( He is buried in the Riverdale Cemetery in his Family’s Plot). Driver Billy Carden won the race that fate-filled day at the Columbus Speedway; but the Red Byron did return to the Columbus Speedway to race again and win on, Nov. 14, 1948.

http://www.columbusgeorgiaonline.com...n-columbus-ga/
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:27 PM
 
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Looks like Tony Stewart injured his back on an ATV this past weekend. Hospitalized.....future unknown at this point:


NASCAR driver Tony Stewart hospitalized for back injury following non-racing accident
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