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Old 03-29-2017, 04:49 PM
 
9,431 posts, read 7,108,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
That was the thing though, people forgot JG had a horrible, normal first season. All they remember was how he was winning and winning a lot. I think teams and sponsors expected the same result from their young talent. Perhaps they have all moved past that.
The difference.. Let's say between a Jeff Gordon and.. Maybe Kenny Irwin? Or a better example might be JJ Yeley, because Irwin while not flashing alot of potential, did show SOME.. JJ didn't. JJ was put in a car 5 years removed from a championship and his teammate had just won a championship in 2005.

But he sucked. There weren't even the flashes of potential, really. he was a solid 25th place car on a good day. That kind of performance, you're looking for a ride.

With Gordon, though he probably wrecked 15 cars his rookie year (Out of 31 races or so) the fact that he nailed top 10's in the races that he didn't wreck in.. Bought him the time. If he had wrecked in 15 races and finished a poor running 25th in the rest.. He would only have made it partway through 1994, IMO. Might have completed the 94 season, but.. I think Hendrick would have given the hook and looked at it as a failed experiment.
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Old 03-29-2017, 06:34 PM
 
32,501 posts, read 26,381,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
I think teams expect that they CAN win out of the box now.. Not necessarily that they have to.

I'm sure if Suarez or Jones goes winless this year.. Gibbs/FRR won't be freaking out.. So long as they're not destroying cars every other race and there's some potential seen there. and I think we've already seen that.. Neither had a great Daytona, but outside of that.. Jones has been top-15 in every race while Suarez was slightly worse with a 20th and 21st place in races 2 and 3, but followed up by 2 7th place finishes

Even Gordon in 1993.. He had a horrible year. Tore up a bunch of cars.. But.. When he didn't.. He was turning out top 5's and top 10's.. So, you look at that.. You can generally learn not to wreck.. hard to learn how to run up front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The difference.. Let's say between a Jeff Gordon and.. Maybe Kenny Irwin? Or a better example might be JJ Yeley, because Irwin while not flashing alot of potential, did show SOME.. JJ didn't. JJ was put in a car 5 years removed from a championship and his teammate had just won a championship in 2005.

But he sucked. There weren't even the flashes of potential, really. he was a solid 25th place car on a good day. That kind of performance, you're looking for a ride.

With Gordon, though he probably wrecked 15 cars his rookie year (Out of 31 races or so) the fact that he nailed top 10's in the races that he didn't wreck in.. Bought him the time. If he had wrecked in 15 races and finished a poor running 25th in the rest.. He would only have made it partway through 1994, IMO. Might have completed the 94 season, but.. I think Hendrick would have given the hook and looked at it as a failed experiment.
i agree with you about suarez and jones. suarez especially i think goes winless this year, but get better continuously. i think that jones contends for a win later in the year, but likely loses out due to some unforeseen circumstance that rookies are subject to.

as for JJ yeley, he did show a little promise early in his career, but never stepped up to the promise, and in fact has regressed slightly.

danica has shown flashes of promise, but once again has not really delivered on that promise. as richard petty once said about her, she is a good driver, but she is not a good racer.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
5,066 posts, read 2,188,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The sponsors involved in the lawsuits or other ones?

I get what you're saying, tho.. Same thing with Junior for that matter. They're not paying for him to win races (though I'm sure they're happier when he is).. They're paying for his name.
hahaha harsh but good one.

I do think more is expected earlier now. Which isn't realistic but patience isn't like it was in the past. Too many other places to dump ad dollars these days.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JonasW View Post
hahaha harsh but good one.

I do think more is expected earlier now. Which isn't realistic but patience isn't like it was in the past. Too many other places to dump ad dollars these days.
'Patience' in the past was alot different, because alot of drivers were driving for their own team.

Do you think that Dave Marcis would have had a ride from 1987 or so until 2002 when he retired? What about JD McDuffie? Richard Childress?

Remember that alot of these guys were driving for their own team or a family team.. If they got noticed there, they might get a ride with an established team.. Where they would still have a pretty quick hook if they didn't perform.

Now.. That whole step is skipped.. people are dumped right into a top-tier team and that sink or swim starts immediately.

Loy Allen would be another good example.. He hit with that pole at Daytona and people thought he was the second coming.. Then he raced.
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:07 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,321,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David A Stone View Post
Danica Patrick's sponsors aren't concerned with minor issues like winning or finishing in the top 10.
Not yet. Look at the time Petty Enterprises rode the "King" train before sponsors stopped knocking due to lackluster on track performance.
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:42 AM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,321,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The sponsors involved in the lawsuits or other ones?

I get what you're saying, tho.. Same thing with Junior for that matter. They're not paying for him to win races (though I'm sure they're happier when he is).. They're paying for his name.
I noticed the figs I buy from Costco are made by Natures Bakery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The difference.. Let's say between a Jeff Gordon and.. Maybe Kenny Irwin? Or a better example might be JJ Yeley, because Irwin while not flashing alot of potential, did show SOME.. JJ didn't. JJ was put in a car 5 years removed from a championship and his teammate had just won a championship in 2005.

But he sucked. There weren't even the flashes of potential, really. he was a solid 25th place car on a good day. That kind of performance, you're looking for a ride.

With Gordon, though he probably wrecked 15 cars his rookie year (Out of 31 races or so) the fact that he nailed top 10's in the races that he didn't wreck in.. Bought him the time. If he had wrecked in 15 races and finished a poor running 25th in the rest.. He would only have made it partway through 1994, IMO. Might have completed the 94 season, but.. I think Hendrick would have given the hook and looked at it as a failed experiment.
Those you mention were a result of Gordon. After Irwin left RYR, Yates had stated that Irwin was Texaco's idea; young, successful sprint car driver like Gordon. After Irwin Yates told Texaco HE was picking the driver. Some sponsors and teams got on the 'let's hire sprint car drivers' which eventually proved that was not guaranteed success either.
I wonder about drivers like JJ who didn't cut it. Do they really suck, was too much expected of them, would have they flourished under a CC like Everham?
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:49 PM
 
9,431 posts, read 7,108,610 times
Reputation: 12202
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
I noticed the figs I buy from Costco are made by Natures Bakery.



Those you mention were a result of Gordon. After Irwin left RYR, Yates had stated that Irwin was Texaco's idea; young, successful sprint car driver like Gordon. After Irwin Yates told Texaco HE was picking the driver. Some sponsors and teams got on the 'let's hire sprint car drivers' which eventually proved that was not guaranteed success either.
I wonder about drivers like JJ who didn't cut it. Do they really suck, was too much expected of them, would have they flourished under a CC like Everham?
I don't think JJ could handle the horsepower.

He was OK in the Busch series.. Not great, but OK. But once you got the extra horsepower of the Cup cars.. he couldn't drive them at all.

He had 2 years at Gibbs and he flopped. Then a part of a year at Hall of Fame racing, which was still an OK team at that point.. He was horrid there.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:54 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,321,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
I don't think JJ could handle the horsepower.

He was OK in the Busch series.. Not great, but OK. But once you got the extra horsepower of the Cup cars.. he couldn't drive them at all.

He had 2 years at Gibbs and he flopped. Then a part of a year at Hall of Fame racing, which was still an OK team at that point.. He was horrid there.
I think he gets a start & park ride on occasion.
It's funny, I couldn't figure out what JGR saw in Stewart, but he was right.
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Old 03-31-2017, 09:42 AM
 
4,315 posts, read 2,531,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
The sponsors involved in the lawsuits or other ones?

I get what you're saying, tho.. Same thing with Junior for that matter. They're not paying for him to win races (though I'm sure they're happier when he is).. They're paying for his name.
comparing Jr to Danica is apples to oranges.


Jr has won some NASCAR races, might win some in the future.


Sure can't say that about Danica.
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Old 04-01-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
5,066 posts, read 2,188,367 times
Reputation: 4514
I think it's apt comparison as set-up by Labonte. But yeah, otherwise Danica is no Jr.
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