U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Auto Racing
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-02-2017, 06:55 PM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,080,103 times
Reputation: 12192

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
And Gary Nelson. Kyle Petty never won another race after NASCAR hired him away. I bet NASCAR will hire Chad Knaus when he decides to leave HMS.

BTW, this is a good thread you started.
Oh yeah.. Gary Nelson.. He might be the biggest cheater that was out there. Well.. Short of Evernham. They're close. Story of the T-Rex.. That's another one I could do.

It's enjoyable.. I like how threads can take one topic and branch off into more, still interesting discussions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-02-2017, 07:47 PM
 
32,452 posts, read 26,325,155 times
Reputation: 19069
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsthomas View Post
I think Smokey Yunick may have been done that before Ernie. Read on his 7/8 scale Chevelle. Cant talk about stretching the rules without mention Smokey. Some of the things he did was just genius. He was stretching the rules before they made them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
And you have to mention Robin Pemberton as well.. The man who bent the rules so much NASCAR just hired him to stop him and have him catch everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
And Gary Nelson. Kyle Petty never won another race after NASCAR hired him away. I bet NASCAR will hire Chad Knaus when he decides to leave HMS.

BTW, this is a good thread you started.
before we claim these guys were cheating, understand that most of what these guys did was not against the rules, since often times there was no rule about what they did. as a crew chief it is our job to study the rule books, and find ways to make the car better and still legal.

for instance, when smoky put nitrous oxide on one of his race cars, and it was successful, nascar made a rule that engines can use gasoline only as a fuel. smoky argued, correctly i might add, the nitrous oxide is not a fuel but an oxidizer, and thus he was allowed to use it again, until nascar made a rule stating "no pressure systems allowed", which kill nitrous usage.

the reality is that if you are not pushing the rules, you are not trying hard enough.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2017, 09:48 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,307,608 times
Reputation: 8896
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
before we claim these guys were cheating, understand that most of what these guys did was not against the rules, since often times there was no rule about what they did. as a crew chief it is our job to study the rule books, and find ways to make the car better and still legal.

for instance, when smoky put nitrous oxide on one of his race cars, and it was successful, nascar made a rule that engines can use gasoline only as a fuel. smoky argued, correctly i might add, the nitrous oxide is not a fuel but an oxidizer, and thus he was allowed to use it again, until nascar made a rule stating "no pressure systems allowed", which kill nitrous usage.

the reality is that if you are not pushing the rules, you are not trying hard enough.
Cheating is easier than saying master rule manipulator....from me anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2017, 09:49 PM
 
12,577 posts, read 13,307,608 times
Reputation: 8896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Oh yeah.. Gary Nelson.. He might be the biggest cheater that was out there. Well.. Short of Evernham. They're close. Story of the T-Rex.. That's another one I could do.

It's enjoyable.. I like how threads can take one topic and branch off into more, still interesting discussions.
Yes, T-rex. What could have been had NASCAR let that be approved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2017, 09:23 AM
 
32,452 posts, read 26,325,155 times
Reputation: 19069
Quote:
Originally Posted by WFW&P View Post
Cheating is easier than saying master rule manipulator....from me anyway.
in other words, you are the type that if there is no rule about something, its illegal?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2017, 11:02 AM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,080,103 times
Reputation: 12192
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
in other words, you are the type that if there is no rule about something, its illegal?
Flip it around.. Are you the type that says "It depends on what the definition of "is" is?"

Yeah, of course IN SOME CASES.. These guys were bending, not breaking the rules. And of course, there's the old adage of "If you don't get caught, it ain't cheating"

Junior Johnson quite often was cheating.. Not working within the 'gray' area of the rulebook. He got popped with an illegal intake manifold that even Nelson said he was amazed at the sophistication of back in.. 94 or 95.

Waltrip's teams with the fuel additive.. That's black and white cheating.

The cars that had ball bearings in the door that they'd dump on the track when the race started.. That's cheating.

Using an unapproved part.. That's.. Technically cheating.

Having a part made of titanium when the rulebook doesn't specifically say that it cannot be titanium or must be steel.. That's working in the gray area.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2017, 12:21 PM
 
32,452 posts, read 26,325,155 times
Reputation: 19069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
Flip it around.. Are you the type that says "It depends on what the definition of "is" is?"

Yeah, of course IN SOME CASES.. These guys were bending, not breaking the rules. And of course, there's the old adage of "If you don't get caught, it ain't cheating"

Junior Johnson quite often was cheating.. Not working within the 'gray' area of the rulebook. He got popped with an illegal intake manifold that even Nelson said he was amazed at the sophistication of back in.. 94 or 95.

Waltrip's teams with the fuel additive.. That's black and white cheating.

The cars that had ball bearings in the door that they'd dump on the track when the race started.. That's cheating.

Using an unapproved part.. That's.. Technically cheating.

Having a part made of titanium when the rulebook doesn't specifically say that it cannot be titanium or must be steel.. That's working in the gray area.
i worked in the grey areas, and the areas not set forth in the rules. as for unapproved parts, they are not unapproved until nascar, or the sanctioning body in question, says so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2017, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Gray Court, SC
3,028 posts, read 2,189,317 times
Reputation: 3148
My memory is vague concerning the "t rex" so I googled it, and from what I read, the car was taken after The Winston, but I would have swore it was after the 600, when Gordon lost a wheel or wrecked or something to cause the front wheel to come off, and thats when modifications were noted and forced them to release the car to Nascar. am I thinking right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2017, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Gray Court, SC
3,028 posts, read 2,189,317 times
Reputation: 3148
Crap, I don't know what I'm thinking about. He won the Winston and the 600, so what I'm thinking of is not this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2017, 03:28 PM
 
9,426 posts, read 7,080,103 times
Reputation: 12192
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i worked in the grey areas, and the areas not set forth in the rules. as for unapproved parts, they are not unapproved until nascar, or the sanctioning body in question, says so.
They're unapproved until they're approved. at least in today's rulebook they are. There was a huge to-do about this a few years back where several teams got hit with fines and suspensions (I think.. I know there were fines) because.. I think Dodge sent out the new nose to the teams before it had been approved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateJohn View Post
My memory is vague concerning the "t rex" so I googled it, and from what I read, the car was taken after The Winston, but I would have swore it was after the 600, when Gordon lost a wheel or wrecked or something to cause the front wheel to come off, and thats when modifications were noted and forced them to release the car to Nascar. am I thinking right?
It was The Winston. They took that car and told Hendrick "Never bring this back" and wound up writing a whole bunch of new regulations in the rule book before the next week. HMS Chassis No. 2429, aka 'T-Rex' | Hendrick Motorsports

And another good article with some quotes from Evernham on it. Evernham pushed envelope with T-Rex Chevrolet

Of course, as you say.. He wound up dominating and winning the 600 as well.. and that was in the middle of those magical '97 and '98 seasons that he had.. You about could have put him out there in a Pinto and he'd have still won 5 races.



I do remember what you're thinking of though.. He had a wheel come off and the found it was an illegal hub.. And you're right about Charlotte as well, I think.. It was in the 600, just not in 97.. I'll see what I can find.

That might have been 1995.. Wow.. I didn't think it was that long ago. It must have been, tho, because he was top-10 in '96 and won in 97 and 98..

That's it.. Evernham was fined $60k for it. So, it was the '95 Coke 600.

Last edited by Labonte18; 03-03-2017 at 03:44 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Auto Racing
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top