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Old 06-15-2010, 11:02 AM
 
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I enjoy watching these cars run - I just wish there was more racing

i'm far from a racing fan, expert or carrying a great knowledge of the sport

however, from what I see there is little passing and it seems to deal with the ability of the cars combined with the tracks they are running on .... it looks like there are very few points where cars can pass and it almost looks like most of the opportunity comes from out braking someone through a turn and hoping you have enough space to run a good line out

i'd be interested to see these guys run on a circuit with a little more space to move with a modern design that would not only challenge the technical skill, but also create more areas where passing is possible
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,089,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
I enjoy watching these cars run - I just wish there was more racing

i'm far from a racing fan, expert or carrying a great knowledge of the sport

however, from what I see there is little passing and it seems to deal with the ability of the cars combined with the tracks they are running on .... it looks like there are very few points where cars can pass and it almost looks like most of the opportunity comes from out braking someone through a turn and hoping you have enough space to run a good line out

i'd be interested to see these guys run on a circuit with a little more space to move with a modern design that would not only challenge the technical skill, but also create more areas where passing is possible
Well hopefully the new Austin circuit will provide that. I know I've got my fingers crossed. But ultimately, I think they need to do something about all the down force on the cars to help with passing. Until they do that, you're going to see more braking maneuvers than anything else. As for more modern track designs - most of the newer F1 tracks seem to be the ones with fewer passing zones. Not sure it's a modern issue, just a design issue in general.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:39 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,616,619 times
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Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
I know you probably haven't been watching for a few years, but they're now using 2.4 liter V8's which still rev up to 18k... similar to what you used to watch I imagine.

The biggest problem in F1 is not the driver assisted technology, but the aerodynamics. It's the extreme down force that these cars use that allow them to theoretically drive upside down at 65 mph, yet also makes passing very difficult - which is the biggest complaint from spectators these days. Regardless of all the technology out there, it still takes an extremely skilled driver to pilot a 1300 lb car with 900 horsepower - a car that can go from 180 mph down to 50 mph in a very short distance to make it through a turn.

Oh well, I guess some will always be happy with less technology. But for some, it's pretty fascinating to see what the future holds for racing, performance, and automobiles in general. And when you watch F1 (and ALMS) you get to be the first to see it used in motorsports.
The ALMS is about the only series out there with anything modern these days and fresh.

Used to be the biggest F1 fan around but gradually faded away due to my own personal racing. I'd rather do it myself than watch others.

But if F1 does end up coming to Austin, I am on board for it and having another nice facility to possibly do some work at would be great.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
I know you probably haven't been watching for a few years, but they're now using 2.4 liter V8's which still rev up to 18k... similar to what you used to watch I imagine.

The biggest problem in F1 is not the driver assisted technology, but the aerodynamics. It's the extreme down force that these cars use that allow them to theoretically drive upside down at 65 mph, yet also makes passing very difficult - which is the biggest complaint from spectators these days. Regardless of all the technology out there, it still takes an extremely skilled driver to pilot a 1300 lb car with 900 horsepower - a car that can go from 180 mph down to 50 mph in a very short distance to make it through a turn.

Oh well, I guess some will always be happy with less technology. But for some, it's pretty fascinating to see what the future holds for racing, performance, and automobiles in general. And when you watch F1 (and ALMS) you get to be the first to see it used in motorsports.
i agree with you on many points, to much aerodynamic assist, even in nascar they have too much in my opinion, and i agree that it takes a lot of skill to drive a formula one car, heck michael andretti had problems driving one many years ago at the peak of his ability. but personally i think that the technology should be used in the prototype race classes which are a more real world test bed for technology that can end up in passenger cars. formula one, sprint cup, izod indy cars, these are the race classes that should be showing off the skills of the drivers, and the tuning skills of the crew chiefs, and the ability of the teams to adjust their race strategy due to circumstances beyond their control.

i also agree that formula one needs more side by side racing, and to achieve that end the circuits need to be wider. that is one of the things i like about nascar when they get on the road courses, they will go into a turn side by side, even if they have to wreck a few race cars to prove that it can be done.
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:01 AM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,089,449 times
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i agree with you on many points, to much aerodynamic assist, even in nascar they have too much in my opinion, and i agree that it takes a lot of skill to drive a formula one car, heck michael andretti had problems driving one many years ago at the peak of his ability. but personally i think that the technology should be used in the prototype race classes which are a more real world test bed for technology that can end up in passenger cars. formula one, sprint cup, izod indy cars, these are the race classes that should be showing off the skills of the drivers, and the tuning skills of the crew chiefs, and the ability of the teams to adjust their race strategy due to circumstances beyond their control.
But I think you do have this in F1. You just also have the engineers showing off their skills and the constructors showing off their cars as well. It might overshadow the skills of the drivers for some, but if it didn't require any driver skill or crew chief strategy, you wouldn't see new drivers having any success in F1. Hamilton wouldn't have come 1 point shy of winning the championship 3 years ago. Race strategies change all the time, especially with weather. It's still there, some just don't like all the other aspects that go along with it, or they've found another form of racing that they like better so they get stuck on the negatives and don't appreciate the positives. Red Bull has the superior chassis right now, but McLaren's strategy change, engineering work, and driver strength has put them right back up there with Red Bull.

F1 is the ultimate prototype series. No other form of racing breeds more innovation and engineering creativity in the world. And as much as technology takes the fun out of it for some, I find it amazing. If you like spec class racing, there are series that do that. F1 has never been about that. It's always been about pushing the envelope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i also agree that formula one needs more side by side racing, and to achieve that end the circuits need to be wider. that is one of the things i like about nascar when they get on the road courses, they will go into a turn side by side, even if they have to wreck a few race cars to prove that it can be done.
Any newer F1 circuit built in the past 10 years is very wide, wider than anything NASCAR races on when they hit a road course. Sears Point and Watkins Glen aren't wide enough to meet F1 specs anymore. The only circuits F1 races on which aren't very wide these days are the historic tracks. Ever see how wide Bahrain is? You can probably go 4 wide through a turn. Only a small handful of tracks in the US would even meet the F1 standards (I'd guess only 2-3), which is why they're building a new facility for it. Again, it's the aerodynamics that prevent the side by side racing, not the width of the tracks.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:53 PM
 
32,549 posts, read 26,480,743 times
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Originally Posted by Ludachris View Post
it's the aerodynamics that prevent the side by side racing, not the width of the tracks.
bull, the izod indycars have similar aerodynamics, and they run side by side quite often, even on the road courses.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:38 PM
 
9,830 posts, read 19,616,619 times
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Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
bull, the izod indycars have similar aerodynamics, and they run side by side quite often, even on the road courses.
Uh no. The Dallara crapmobile "indycars" can only generate just over 2.5 to 3 G's of grip where a modern F1 car can get close to 5 G's. This is on a flat roadcourse not an oval.

The problem with F1 is too many Tilke designed tracks with endless 2nd gear corners.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:53 AM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,089,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
bull, the izod indycars have similar aerodynamics, and they run side by side quite often, even on the road courses.
No, they don't have similar aerodynamics. The look of the cars might be similar, but that doesn't mean anything. Hell, the GP2 cars look similar too, but obviously they're not. F1 cars have millions upon millions of dollars each year spent on aerodynamic tweaks to make them faster. Show me another car that can pull over 4 G's in the turns consistently. As impressive as that is, it means that the cars are so dependent upon the aero, that when a car comes up to try to pass, the turbulence generated from the car in front makes it extremely difficult.

And yes, as wanneroo said, I think all the new tracks with sweeping turns doesn't help either. We need more Laguna Seca and Road America-style tracks on the F1 schedule.
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Old 06-20-2010, 09:08 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 84,134,699 times
Reputation: 18056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
I enjoy watching these cars run - I just wish there was more racing

i'm far from a racing fan, expert or carrying a great knowledge of the sport

however, from what I see there is little passing and it seems to deal with the ability of the cars combined with the tracks they are running on .... it looks like there are very few points where cars can pass and it almost looks like most of the opportunity comes from out braking someone through a turn and hoping you have enough space to run a good line out

i'd be interested to see these guys run on a circuit with a little more space to move with a modern design that would not only challenge the technical skill, but also create more areas where passing is possible
Having followed F1 since the 60's when I was a kid ;today you have to love the car technology more than the actual racing.Its more and more a technology battle with less and less racing.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:20 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 84,134,699 times
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OP got it right in that if they want to gain fans here they had better figure out a way to have more racing instead of the common parade. F1 is a sport domitaed by fans who like the cars more than racing.Between the cars and the drama of racing politcs that is their fan base.
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