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Old 10-09-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,671 posts, read 5,415,863 times
Reputation: 1165

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remisc View Post
Yeah, that was the point I was going for. Huge, gas-guzzling sedans have evolved into huge, gas-guzzling SUV's. Parking spots and lanes, for the most part, have stayed the same size for the last 30-40 someodd years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
What is the difference? It is driving in lanes and parking in parking spaces which are "too small."

Now, let's clarify things. Did the Chevy Suburban not exist long ago? YES!

Let's compare Lincolns of the 70s to what they look like today. TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARS.

You do not see Dodge, GM or Ford/Lincoln building cars like they did back then.

Look at the 1979 Chevy Suburban for example:

1979 chevy suburban - Google Search


And the 2009 Chevy Suburban:

2009 chevy suburban - Google Search=


NO BIG DIFFERENCE for the SUVs. (which by the way has nothing to do with the topic)


1979 Lincoln Town Car:

1979 lincoln town car - Google Search=

2009 Lincoln Town Car:

2009 lincoln town car - Google Search=

The Difference is obvious.


The people who cannot make the difference between a car and an SUV might as well stop discussing in this thread.

I'm speaking of cars built then (specifically in 70s, the decade of ugliest American cars ), and cars built now. Overall, they're much smaller.

What's so hard to underdstand?

Bringing SUVs into the argument is senseless. Those bringing it in are doing it to prove another point. (which has nothing to do with this topic).

If you want to start another thread about big SUVs and what not, feel free to do so.
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,671 posts, read 5,415,863 times
Reputation: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
It's kind of funny, in a way. The auto companies just went from building "huge" cars to "huge" SUVs and trucks.
Those who don't like huge car probably realized they were better off before they complained!
Again you're wrong. They always built big trucks.

They weren't as popular back then. That's all. The Suburban existed, as I proved to you guys. They were always there, just not in prevalence.


For the past few years (I'd say 10-15 years), they were a fashion statement if you want to call it that. (an automotive fad, if ask me). Look at the new Explorer, the Chevy Traverse etc. They're not even on truck chassis anymore.

They're called X-overs now.. They're built on car platforms, not on truck platforms.

Frod, Chevy and Chrysler are scaling down. You all know it. They're still building big trucks, but they're NOW focusing on fuel efficiency, and smaller (by American standards) vehicles.

When was the last time you saw an Excursion on your dealer showroom?

Look how well Hummer is doing ....(The Chinese own it now. They should have just killed the brand).

Times are changin'
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Detroit's Marina District
970 posts, read 2,543,532 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNY View Post
Now, let's clarify things. Did the Chevy Suburban not exist long ago? YES!

Let's compare Lincolns of the 70s to what they look like today. TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARS.

You do not see Dodge, GM or Ford/Lincoln building cars like they did back then.

Look at the 1979 Chevy Suburban for example:

1979 chevy suburban - Google Search


And the 2009 Chevy Suburban:

2009 chevy suburban - Google Search=


NO BIG DIFFERENCE for the SUVs. (which by the way has nothing to do with the topic)


1979 Lincoln Town Car:

1979 lincoln town car - Google Search=

2009 Lincoln Town Car:

2009 lincoln town car - Google Search=

The Difference is obvious.


The people who cannot make the difference between a car and an SUV might as well stop discussing in this thread.

I'm speaking of cars built then (specifically in 70s, the decade of ugliest American cars ), and cars built now. Overall, they're much smaller.

What's so hard to underdstand?

Bringing SUVs into the argument is senseless. Those bringing it in are doing it to prove another point. (which has nothing to do with this topic).

If you want to start another thread about big SUVs and what not, feel free to do so.
Next time, do a little research.



The Towncar of today is almost exactly the same size as it's predecessor, the Continental, from the 60's. And, a modern full-sized SUV isn't much larger than some of the cars made in the 60's and 70's.

Also, the Suburban's been around for longer than my parents .The 'Suburban' name is 5 years older than both of them, actually. So, you saying it hasn't been around long left me scratching my head.
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Old 10-09-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,154 posts, read 26,651,228 times
Reputation: 6441
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNY View Post
Again you're wrong. They always built big trucks.

They weren't as popular back then. That's all. The Suburban existed, as I proved to you guys. They were always there, just not in prevalence.


For the past few years (I'd say 10-15 years), they were a fashion statement if you want to call it that. (an automotive fad, if ask me). Look at the new Explorer, the Chevy Traverse etc. They're not even on truck chassis anymore.

They're called X-overs now.. They're built on car platforms, not on truck platforms.

Frod, Chevy and Chrysler are scaling down. You all know it. They're still building big trucks, but they're NOW focusing on fuel efficiency, and smaller (by American standards) vehicles.

When was the last time you saw an Excursion on your dealer showroom?

Look how well Hummer is doing ....(The Chinese own it now. They should have just killed the brand).

Times are changin'
Trucks are more popular today because many people want to drive a large vehicle. And many of today's "large" vehicles really are not all that large.

Ford, Chevy and Chrysler are scaling down mainly to obtain better fuel economy. They have to meet the standards set.

I see quite a few large trucks and SUVs when I am driving and in parking lots.
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Old 10-09-2010, 04:26 PM
 
Location: The Circle City. Sometimes NE of Bagdad.
17,503 posts, read 18,672,711 times
Reputation: 47086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
I see quite a few large trucks on SUVs when I am driving and in parking lots.
What were these trucks doing on the SUVs?
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Old 10-09-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,154 posts, read 26,651,228 times
Reputation: 6441
Quote:
Originally Posted by motormaker View Post
What were these trucks doing on the SUVs?
Lol. Bad drivers, that's why!

(I corrected the post!)
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,671 posts, read 5,415,863 times
Reputation: 1165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Trucks are more popular today because many people want to drive a large vehicle. And many of today's "large" vehicles really are not all that large.

Ford, Chevy and Chrysler are scaling down mainly to obtain better fuel economy. They have to meet the standards set.

I see quite a few large trucks and SUVs when I am driving and in parking lots.
I didn't say anything about Trucks and SUVs. But if you want, let's look at their sales figures today. Not the same as, say 5 years ago. I doubt we'll see Ford make Excursions again, or even Hummer to sell well.

And, again, we're seeing domestic auto makers scaling down on size of the avg sedan compared to the 1970s. How well are Lincoln and Cadillac selling their Grand Dad cars? Not as good as say, 15 years ago.

I know some want domestic car builders to continue with big, lazy, excessive gas guzzling, domestic iron, but we're living in different times. Lincoln and Cadillac seem to get it. They're slowly shying away from what they used to build. They're thinking on a global level now, not just America and its wants. Don't you see more of the platforms from Europe and Australia creeping into US Dealer showrooms? I'm not making this up. It's happening for a reason.

Do you think gas prices will stay the same? That alone killed big SUV sales in the past years. People are getting into smaller Suvs, and crossover SUVs.

Do people still drive what we call the grandpa cars? Yes. You even have younger African Americans and Caucasians fixing them up with big wheels, tacky paint jobs, keeping the after market alive. Good for them. There's a niche/small segment for these cars. Hope that makes you and others happy. I don't care. I'm into cars just as much as you, so I appreciate and understand the passion for cars, regardless of where they're made. I may choose one type over another, but I clearly understand the passion these guys have for the old domestic iron.

Fleet, from our discussions, I know you're a sensilbe and cool guy. But let's look at the trends. We're seeing less excess these days. I see it as a good thing, but also understand the reluctance to change.

Heck, I'd love for Porsche to continue building a 944 turbo (one of my cars), with more power, reliability, lighter materials, while keeping the 50/50 weight distribution. I just have to live with the fact that Porsche does not make it anymore, or even a replacement for it. I move on, while enjoying what they made at the time (as I make it faster, lighter and maintain its beauty). That's life.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Remisc View Post
Next time, do a little research.



The Towncar of today is almost exactly the same size as it's predecessor, the Continental, from the 60's. And, a modern full-sized SUV isn't much larger than some of the cars made in the 60's and 70's.

Also, the Suburban's been around for longer than my parents .The 'Suburban' name is 5 years older than both of them, actually. So, you saying it hasn't been around long left me scratching my head.
I did my research.

If you read, you'd notice that my comparison was for the 1979 Lincoln, not 1969. Again, reading is fundamental.

The 1979 Lincoln Town Car length is: 233 inches (bigger than the 2009 model).
I rest my case.

1979 Lincoln Continental specs, specifications, tech specs - 4 door 6.6 litre (6590 cc) V8 161.2 PS, 3 speed automatic

1979 Lincoln Continental Town Car - Lincoln Forums
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,154 posts, read 26,651,228 times
Reputation: 6441
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNY View Post
I didn't say anything about Trucks and SUVs. But if you want, let's look at their sales figures today. Not the same as, say 5 years ago. I doubt we'll see Ford make Excursions again, or even Hummer to sell well.

And, again, we're seeing domestic auto makers scaling down on size of the avg sedan compared to the 1970s. How well are Lincoln and Cadillac selling their Grand Dad cars? Not as good as say, 15 years ago.
Back to what I said before. It's a matter of choice. Why not have large cars (or SUVs/trucks) available to those who want them? Even if they don't sell much.

Quote:
I know some want domestic car builders to continue with big, lazy, excessive gas guzzling, domestic iron, but we're living in different times. Lincoln and Cadillac seem to get it. They're slowly shying away from what they used to build. They're thinking on a global level now, not just America and its wants. Don't you see more of the platforms from Europe and Australia creeping into US Dealer showrooms? I'm not making this up. It's happening for a reason.
There are quite a few people that want Lincoln and Cadillac to make real full-sized cars again (although the Town Car is full-sized). It's highly unlikely that a large amount of Lincolns and Cadillacs are going to sell globally anyway. There can be both... modest size Cadillacs and Lincolns (like the ones being built today) and big ones, too.

Quote:
Do you think gas prices will stay the same? That alone killed big SUV sales in the past years. People are getting into smaller Suvs, and crossover SUVs.
For some, gas prices don't affect them. Because they do not drive their cars more than 4,000 or 5,000 miles per year.

Quote:
Do people still drive what we call the grandpa cars? Yes. You even have younger African Americans and Caucasians fixing them up with big wheels, tacky paint jobs, keeping the after market alive. Good for them. There's a niche/small segment for these cars. Hope that makes you and others happy. I don't care. I'm into cars just as much as you, so I appreciate and understand the passion for cars, regardless of where they're made. I may choose one type over another, but I clearly understand the passion these guys have for the old domestic iron.
I see more old cars in stock condition than those which have the add-ons you mentioned.

Quote:
Fleet, from our discussions, I know you're a sensilbe and cool guy. But let's look at the trends. We're seeing less excess these days. I see it as a good thing, but also understand the reluctance to change.
Thanks for the compliment.
You would agree that it is a good thing that classic, big cars appeal to some who are under 30 years old? I was out driving my triple black '69 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham (19 feet long) in my area. Made a right turn and there were two kids on bicycles on the corner. About 10-12 years old. One of them said, "Nice car." I can't tell you how many times I've heard that! The same thing happened (in the same car) when I was driving by a Middle School. Two kids walking by and I heard one of them say to the other "Cadillac." Now you see, it's people like them who will keep traditional, big American cars alive. My 17-year-old Niece has said to me that not only would she like to drive one or all of my cars, but that should would someday like to own a classic car. Definitely a good thing. The old (big) cars which some people refer to as "dinosaurs," "boats," "barges," etc are a part of Americana. I doubt we will ever see cars with the styling or true comfort of 1960s cars. And that, truly, is sad.

Quote:
I did my research.

If you read, you'd notice that my comparison was for the 1979 Lincoln, not 1969. Again, reading is fundamental.

The 1979 Lincoln Town Car length is: 233 inches (bigger than the 2009 model).
I rest my case.

1979 Lincoln Continental specs, specifications, tech specs - 4 door 6.6 litre (6590 cc) V8 161.2 PS, 3 speed automatic

1979 Lincoln Continental Town Car - Lincoln Forums
I definitely (as would many others) like to see the return of a car like a '79 Lincoln Town Car... all 233" of it.
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Old 10-09-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Detroit's Marina District
970 posts, read 2,543,532 times
Reputation: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
I definitely (as would many others) like to see the return of a car like a '79 Lincoln Town Car... all 233" of it.
I guess that really is big for a car. I looked up how big my SUV is - Yukon Denali XL - which I always thought was huge. And the '79 Towncar has it beat out by 11 inches. But, I agree, it would be great to have a big, sturdy, V8 powered, and elegant vehicle like the '79 Towncar on the road again.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,154 posts, read 26,651,228 times
Reputation: 6441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remisc View Post
I guess that really is big for a car. I looked up how big my SUV is - Yukon Denali XL - which I always thought was huge. And the '79 Towncar has it beat out by 11 inches. But, I agree, it would be great to have a big, sturdy, V8 powered, and elegant vehicle like the '79 Towncar on the road again.
Oh, yes. 233" is big!
There were several cars from the '70s right around that size. Mid-'70s Buick Electra, Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, Oldsmobile 98, etc.

The longest I've seen, no including the fabulous Cadillac Series 75 Limousine, is 235.3" for the 1973 Chrysler Imperial.

An Internet friend I know who lives in Australia bought a '77 Lincoln Town Car with the big 460-cu-in engine. He already owns an '81 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance, but this Lincoln is about one foot longer! He is very eager to own and drive it.
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