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Old 09-14-2010, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 87,132,548 times
Reputation: 29358

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Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
Thanks for bringing up the choice issue. I'm kind of surprised by the number of fatalists on the board here.

"I HAVE to have a car because I HAVE to live in Point A and I HAVE to work at Point B doing X Job".

Really . Really?

So you've given up your Human Right to Free Will. The Mighty Auto Industry Trumps All.

Wow.

Choosing a car-free (or car-lite) lifestyle isn't always easy, or brainless, or even less expensive.

It took us a few years of careful planning to get everything in place. Work Home. Life.

The payoff?

Much less stress and overall a higher quality of life.

Lunches at home. Noon-time runs and walks. Plenty of time after work for bike rides and home projects and yard work and books.

No more sitting in traffic. No more road rage. No more drive-thru dinners.

Bye bye high insurance premiums. Bye bye wear and tear on the van,. Bye bye time spent on maintenance ( we only need an oil change once per year!).

When we DO drive, it's because we WANT to. We want to pick up mulch at the garden center. We want to travel to visit family. We want to ride a new trail out of state or dine at an out-of-town restaurant.

If you can't tell, I'm a fan of humans having choices in life. Don't get stuck in the "HAVE to" mentality too much.
OK, this is an argument I'm tired of hearing. This isn't the 1950s any more. You don't get to choose where you work and then just keep working there until you retire. The sort of job stability that underlies a "you can choose where you live and where you work" just doesn't exist anymore. These days you take a job wherever you can find it. Even in better times you can get transferred or downsized or outsized at a moment's notice. It's not practical or economical to pick up and move right next to your workplace every time your workplace changes. Case in point, my wife's employer has 5 office branches in the metro area. People get moved from office to office all the time, and if that doubles or triples their commute time and distance, well that's just too bad for them. If they don't like it, they can just go get another job closer to where they live. That is, if they can find one.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:43 AM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,541,178 times
Reputation: 4494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
OK, this is an argument I'm tired of hearing. This isn't the 1950s any more. You don't get to choose where you work and then just keep working there until you retire. The sort of job stability that underlies a "you can choose where you live and where you work" just doesn't exist anymore. These days you take a job wherever you can find it. Even in better times you can get transferred or downsized or outsized at a moment's notice. It's not practical or economical to pick up and move right next to your workplace every time your workplace changes. Case in point, my wife's employer has 5 office branches in the metro area. People get moved from office to office all the time, and if that doubles or triples their commute time and distance, well that's just too bad for them. If they don't like it, they can just go get another job closer to where they live. That is, if they can find one.
Look, I don't think either Plaidmom or I believe that the world would be a better place if everyone just chucked the suburbs, moved to the city, and started riding bikes everywhere. That said, I think the assumption that one needs a car is overstated. Almost everything in life is a choice. If you don't want to live the kind of life that allows car-free living, fine, but don't try to convince me that you are completely powerless to create a different kind of life. That's a crock of you-know-what.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 87,132,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Look, I don't think either Plaidmom or I believe that the world would be a better place if everyone just chucked the suburbs, moved to the city, and started riding bikes everywhere. That said, I think the assumption that one needs a car is overstated. Almost everything in life is a choice. If you don't want to live the kind of life that allows car-free living, fine, but don't try to convince me that you are completely powerless to create a different kind of life. That's a crock of you-know-what.
I didn't try to convince anyone of any such thing. I just pointed out that the "you can live and work wherever you want" line is glib and simplistic. We live where we live precisely because of easy access to public transit. Then my wife got transferred to a place where public transit doesn't reach so easily. Meanwhile, I was still reliant on public transportation to get me to school. So now what are we supposed to do in your facile little "you have choices" world? Move to where she could get to where she needs to go by foot and/or bike? Or stay here so I could still take the train to school? Sometimes choices about where to live and where to work don't come in tidy, convenient little packages. And even if you you can choose such a convenient arrangement for a while, life sometimes has a way of f#*king your plans up.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,553,334 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I didn't try to convince anyone of any such thing. I just pointed out that the "you can live and work wherever you want" line is glib and simplistic. We live where we live precisely because of easy access to public transit. Then my wife got transferred to a place where public transit doesn't reach so easily. Meanwhile, I was still reliant on public transportation to get me to school. So now what are we supposed to do in your facile little "you have choices" world? Move to where she could get to where she needs to go by foot and/or bike? Or stay here so I could still take the train to school? Sometimes choices about where to live and where to work don't come in tidy, convenient little packages. And even if you you can choose such a convenient arrangement for a while, life sometimes has a way of f#*king your plans up.
Yup, and whether you're renting or buying, you have a contract and you can't just up and move to an easier place (especially if that "easier" place is also much more expensive to live at). Especially if you have children, or even pets.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:38 PM
 
5,019 posts, read 12,507,363 times
Reputation: 6952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I didn't try to convince anyone of any such thing. I just pointed out that the "you can live and work wherever you want" line is glib and simplistic. We live where we live precisely because of easy access to public transit. Then my wife got transferred to a place where public transit doesn't reach so easily. Meanwhile, I was still reliant on public transportation to get me to school. So now what are we supposed to do in your facile little "you have choices" world? Move to where she could get to where she needs to go by foot and/or bike? Or stay here so I could still take the train to school? Sometimes choices about where to live and where to work don't come in tidy, convenient little packages. And even if you you can choose such a convenient arrangement for a while, life sometimes has a way of f#*king your plans up.
I feel for you guys. Really, I do.

Life is NEVER that simple.

Just, my hope for you, is....don't "give up". Don't buy into the "we HAVE to live this way" (tied to the private car for daily use) forever and ever, amen.

Do what is best for you and your family at this point in time.

"Choice" is good, but I agree that it often comes late in life and when one is feeling a bit more settled and stable.

And as I said before, and I think "formercalifornian" would agree, it doesn't happen by "chance". Start thinking and planning for your car-lite/free future ~now~.

Good luck and best wishes.
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Old 09-16-2010, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 87,132,548 times
Reputation: 29358
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,796 posts, read 7,383,538 times
Reputation: 4336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I'm not sure I understand your reaction to plaidmom's post.

If I were laid-off next week, should I expect to go on welfare soon thereafter, since I don't have the choice to drive?
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:45 AM
 
3,219 posts, read 5,672,068 times
Reputation: 1839
After I manufacture a "transporter" like in Star Trek, they'll be no need for roads, cars and the like.

I'll be the wealthiest man on earth.

So all that would be losing their jobs over this can work for me. lol!

I don't have a car and don't need it where I reside, but I'll purchase one if a job comes my way requiring the need for one.

Otherwise my feet, bicycle and buses are my main transportation tools for now.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,553,334 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
I feel for you guys. Really, I do.

Life is NEVER that simple.

Just, my hope for you, is....don't "give up". Don't buy into the "we HAVE to live this way" (tied to the private car for daily use) forever and ever, amen.

Do what is best for you and your family at this point in time.

"Choice" is good, but I agree that it often comes late in life and when one is feeling a bit more settled and stable.

And as I said before, and I think "formercalifornian" would agree, it doesn't happen by "chance". Start thinking and planning for your car-lite/free future ~now~.

Good luck and best wishes.
As I've said before, if you don't like cars and don't want a car, as you think of them as only appliances to get you to work and back, get rid of your cars and make the roads clearer for those of us that love cars, enjoy cars, appreciate them as kinetic sculpture AND as simply fun to be in.

But don't think for a minute that in this modern era that it's something that everyone CAN "give up" on a moments notice or that it's in any way easy for a lot of folks. Especially now with the job market the way it is and the difficulty there is in selling a house and moving somewhere else. And that it's doubly hard if you have kids or pets.

Personally, I have an automotive bucket list a mile long. I dont twant to go without vehicles. Hell, I don't even want to reduce the number I have to just one or two. Yeah, I can only drive one at a time, but I can drive difernt ones on different days, depending on mood and what I want to do. I love having prioject cars that I can rebuild and personalize from the ground up. In order, then, to be happy, and satisfied with life, I need cars. And I'm fine with that.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,553,334 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I'm not sure I understand your reaction to plaidmom's post.

If I were laid-off next week, should I expect to go on welfare soon thereafter, since I don't have the choice to drive?
I'm not sure I understand your reaction to Drover's post.

Why would you not have the ability to drive if you were laid off?
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