U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-09-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 14,133,869 times
Reputation: 14784

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinsanity View Post
that's nice, but where do you put the gallon of milk? or the 24-pack of beer?
Panniers can hold an incredible amount of items. I used to often haul three gallons of milk and a gallon of orange juice, along with lots of canned goods and various other groceries. This is a picture of a small load of groceries:



Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
That was our goal, too, and two years ago, we made it happen. I love it! I would never, ever go back to a car-dependent exurban lifestyle.
Not needing a car was a great experience, and one I hope to duplicate again some day when I can afford to move.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-09-2010, 03:02 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,740,477 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
You have to realize that you aren't the first to post these sentiments, nor will you be the last. And in the vast majority of the cases, what I said was easily read to be implied in your posts was not merely implied but implicitly stated in others. Many car guys are tired of hearing the same anti-car derogatory statements made and so now tend to respond as he did at the first sight of the same old, same old, even if it wasnt' meant that way. So yeah, it may be new to you, and you may think "it's only one little statement so get a thicker skin" But it's kind of old to a lot of us who, you know, actually like cars.

Again, your comments may not have been meant that way. But too often, the reason people feel that way about something for themselves/their family is because they learned/felt it was that way for everyone else first. And that's what gets responded to.
Hey, I like cars, too, and as a matter of fact, my FIL is the editor of a car magazine and has published thousands of articles about auto racing over the course of his career. He travels around the world meeting with drivers, owners, etc., and I've seen and ridden in more than my fair share of extraordinary vehicles. But, can we agree that the typical road car isn't a work of art or exemplary engineering, and I-25 (or any other highway of your choice) isn't LeMans or Watkins Glen? Day-to-day driving stinks. It's traffic jams and road rage, insurance premiums and registration fees. It's definitely not the image of freedom that car ads portray.

Perhaps the regular participants in this forum aren't the best audience for a thread of this nature; however, I wasn't the OP. I responded because I think it's an interesting topic, and I still think it's worthy of discussion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 03:18 PM
 
19,122 posts, read 22,158,663 times
Reputation: 7326
Whats' a bus? I live rural, but I don't drive my car except in winter. I ride a bike with 1,596 cc engine 3/4 of the year.

I drive one of 2 trucks to transport machines to places they are made for. The big truck when it is the one of choice and the little one when it isn't, and that doesn't count the snow plow truck or the Bob Cat. Most of the hauling is 80+ miles one way.

The drive way here is 1/2 mile.

There is no other form of transport for anything and shopping is a 40 mile trip one way.

UPS saves me from having to drive a lot though, so bad they won't do our shopping too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,955 posts, read 17,643,864 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonarrat View Post
Just a point of curiosity. If you didn't have a car, could you get by? I got to thinking what my life would be like if I didn't have it as a musician. There are certain things I could still do easily, some I could do only with difficulty, and some that could not be done at all.

There is a grocery store nearby, so that's not a problem. I could still get to my day job and back, too, but it would take 2 additional hours out of my day unless I braved the rush-hour traffic on my bicycle every day. I could get to and from one of the after-school choirs where I work, but the second choir and the church job would have to go - there's no public transport nearby and it's miles from the train station, uphill. To do my laundry, I would need to take two buses at a cost of $6 a round trip, since there are no hookups in my rental house. And I would need to give piano lessons in my home instead of going to theirs, which would cause me to lose most if not all of my current students with their crazy schedules.

tl;dr version: it's possible for me to do without a car, but it would mean giving up a significant amount of income.
We need our older vehicles for transport out of our small town to buy supplies and make doctor visit. If it were not for those two needs we would switch to our bicycles 100%.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,955 posts, read 17,643,864 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post
I ride a bike with 1,596 cc engine 3/4 of the year.
Off topic a bit.....
Mac, what bike has an engine size of 1,596 cc ????
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 04:36 PM
 
11,256 posts, read 43,191,290 times
Reputation: 14905
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Everyone has a right to suggest (not "dictate") what others should do. (One 'dictates" what others must do.)

Just who are you, to say that everything you do is absolutely right, and lies beyond suggested improvements?
At no time have I ever suggested or asserted that everything I do is absolutely right ... nor do I regard your implied assertion that changing over to a bicycle based transportation system would be an "improvement" in my life. The fallacy in your logic ... or lack therof ... is that I have only presented a rationale as to why I do what I do; at no point have I suggested that others cannot choose to only walk/use public transportation/ride a bicycle. If it suits their needs and physical abilities and they can justify that mode of lifestyle, so be it ... I have no issue with their choice. That isn't my choice, OK?

But it seems there are those who are so blinded by their personal choices which are only made viable options due to the efforts and expenditures of others.

Case in point: There's no road tax for bicycles in any of the states I'm familiar with. While I'm a recreational road bike rider, I also contribute to those roads via my fuel taxes derived from my vehicles. For those who don't own/operate a motor vehicle and consume fuel, but strictly ride their bicycles ... they aren't pulling their weight at all.

As Merc63 points out, few of the solely bicycle transportation people would have the ability to have their lifestyle if it wasn't for the benefits of transportation from the private sector ... producers of the goods and services and energy which those bicycle people rely upon to be conveniently at their disposal. Otherwise, they'd be back to living in a village level environment when it comes to essential material goods and foodstuffs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 05:04 PM
 
5,748 posts, read 10,740,477 times
Reputation: 4502
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
At no time have I ever suggested or asserted that everything I do is absolutely right ... nor do I regard your implied assertion that changing over to a bicycle based transportation system would be an "improvement" in my life. The fallacy in your logic ... or lack therof ... is that I have only presented a rationale as to why I do what I do; at no point have I suggested that others cannot choose to only walk/use public transportation/ride a bicycle. If it suits their needs and physical abilities and they can justify that mode of lifestyle, so be it ... I have no issue with their choice. That isn't my choice, OK?

But it seems there are those who are so blinded by their personal choices which are only made viable options due to the efforts and expenditures of others.

Case in point: There's no road tax for bicycles in any of the states I'm familiar with. While I'm a recreational road bike rider, I also contribute to those roads via my fuel taxes derived from my vehicles. For those who don't own/operate a motor vehicle and consume fuel, but strictly ride their bicycles ... they aren't pulling their weight at all.

As Merc63 points out, few of the solely bicycle transportation people would have the ability to have their lifestyle if it wasn't for the benefits of transportation from the private sector ... producers of the goods and services and energy which those bicycle people rely upon to be conveniently at their disposal. Otherwise, they'd be back to living in a village level environment when it comes to essential material goods and foodstuffs.
Oh, for goodness sake! Of course, cyclists and pedestrians pull their weight. It is not only through fuel taxes that roads are built and maintained. Your logic taken to its extreme would imply that renters aren't pulling their weight because they don't directly pay property taxes, but that is not the case. They pay rent to homeowners, who then pay property taxes. Whenever I pay for a good or service, a part of my expenditure eventually goes to pay fuel taxes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 05:13 PM
 
19,122 posts, read 22,158,663 times
Reputation: 7326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Off topic a bit.....
Mac, what bike has an engine size of 1,596 cc ????

06 Kawii Nomad a real big bike
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,885 posts, read 7,628,668 times
Reputation: 4505
Quote:
Originally Posted by formercalifornian View Post
Oh, for goodness sake! Of course, cyclists and pedestrians pull their weight. It is not only through fuel taxes that roads are built and maintained. Your logic taken to its extreme would imply that renters aren't pulling their weight because they don't directly pay property taxes, but that is not the case. They pay rent to homeowners, who then pay property taxes. Whenever I pay for a good or service, a part of my expenditure eventually goes to pay fuel taxes.
Not to mention that fuel taxes don't completely cover the cost of the roads we use.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-09-2010, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 14,133,869 times
Reputation: 14784
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Case in point: There's no road tax for bicycles in any of the states I'm familiar with. While I'm a recreational road bike rider, I also contribute to those roads via my fuel taxes derived from my vehicles. For those who don't own/operate a motor vehicle and consume fuel, but strictly ride their bicycles ... they aren't pulling their weight at all.
Can you imagine how many bicycles and how many miles it would take to wear out a road as quickly as just one car? Bicycles simply don't damage roads very much in comparison to cars and trucks. For example, the oldest portion of the multi-use path in my town was constructed about 14 years ago, and the only traffic it sees is pedestrian and bicycle, with the occasional small service vehicle. It hasn't needed repaving since it was constructed, and the few spots that aren't perfect are due to mother nature doing her thing.

If someone is riding a bicycle to work, he/she is polluting less, and doing far less damage to the roads. In many cases the cyclist is contributing less to congestion, as he/she will often be riding on a shoulder or in a bike lane, or on a multi-use path completely separate from the road. Less gas is being used, which means the person is adding less to the demand for gasoline, which means less contribution to high fuel prices. Some might even argue the commuter cyclist is doing the same for health care. Granted, the actual amount would be incredibly tiny (unless more people rode). It sounds like, if anything, the commuter cyclist should receive a tax break. After all, he/she does pay for roads one way or another, but doesn't actually damage his/her investment. I was always happy enough to just be saving money on gas, tags, insurance, wheel taxes, etc. If a cyclist truly didn't pay for roads in any way, then he/she might actually be getting a fair break.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:54 PM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top