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I like that but for a family of three, thats 2 days worth of groceries. lol
Yeah it's a lot easier when you're a single guy! Car free definitely isn't for everyone. When you start cycling to work, it's easy to think, "Wow! How come more people don't do this?" But you have to remind yourself that it's just not feasible for a lot of people. If you have kids, live in a rural area, routinely tow large things, or have a job that requires sales calls, it's just not realistic. A lot of people have large dogs that require massive bags of food, but that's doable with a trailer. But add in a grocery store distance of a few miles and it becomes more troublesome, as does everything else.
My ideal living arrangement would be to live somewhere where I could walk most places, taking public transport if I had to, and bicycle if I wanted to.
No one "needs " a car, as peopel got along "fine" without them for centuries. Of course, no one needs any modern conveninece, or much more than a dry cave to sleep in and roots and tubers to eat. It's all based on wanting to exceed the basic limitations of living and making our environment more comfortable and accessable. everything from moving though grass roof huts and domesticating horses to move peopel and goods, to creating machinery to move us and out goods and controlled environments to live in all stems from
That being said, there's nothing wrong with wanting a car, or being an automotive fan and enthusiast. And simply wanting one is more than valid justification for having one.
For the record, I used to routinely bring home about 60+ pounds of groceries on my bicycle. Bicycles can hold enormous weight for their size, as long as you have enough bags and racks. This was a light load:
that's nice, but where do you put the gallon of milk? or the 24-pack of beer?
Oh, for goodness sake! There are lots of ways to carry milk (or beer)... a basket, a pannier, a backpack, a trailer. Or, you can have it delivered like I do. The dairy truck comes every Friday morning before dawn.
It takes a special alignment of circumstances to do without a car, and not all that many people fit the bill. Yes, one can sometimes figure it all out and make it come together, as Jtur88 has done, but remember it is a bit simpler for him being retired. When and if the time comes that we cannot drive (medical/old age issues) then that represents for most a major change in lifestyle and a major realignment of habits, and, giving up some things that we used to do. One nice thing about all these posts was the absence of the holier-than-thou anti-car people, but after all this is the automotive forum; the responses would be distributed a bit differently if the same OP had been in the Green Living forum!
Obviously, there are many many more people who do not need a car, but there are very few of them who frequent the Automotive Forum. This is a pretty slanted forum in that respect.
My ideal living arrangement would be to live somewhere where I could walk most places, taking public transport if I had to, and bicycle if I wanted to.
That was our goal, too, and two years ago, we made it happen. I love it! I would never, ever go back to a car-dependent exurban lifestyle.
Very good points, but that doesn't change my opinion that those of use who can live car-lite or car-free should do so. I live in a suburb a mile from work, a half-mile from a major mall, and a couple blocks from a grocery store. Public transit drives right past my house and the light rail is just up the hill. Most everything I could possibly need is just a few minutes away by foot or bike. There's very little reason for me to clutter up the highways even more because I need another status symbol to proclaim my worth to the world.
May I ask, just who you are to dictate what others should do re their transportation choices?
I have no issue with your choice to bicycle for your needs, but to have such knowing disdain for others who utilize other methods is not appropriate. In fact, you are as dependent upon mechanized transportation as everybody else for the modern lifestyle you enjoy.
Even in your smug assessment of your personal situation where you live so conveniently close to your source of income and supplies ... everything you purchase, either in person or by delivery service ... comes by some form of mechanized transportation. You're as much a part of the demand on the transportation system as anybody else as long as you are a consumer of energy, resources, food, clothing, or any recreation except sitting on your porch in the sun.
Even your bicycle is a product of numerous chains of production, ranging from the mining which produced the minerals for the metals to the raw goods for the fabricated parts ... the rubber, plastics, saddle, saddlebags.
And there's no need for you to purchase a "status symbol" car ... there's cars that are built to accomodate a minimalist transportation need, or you can rent or pool as needed ... should the need ever arise. Your blanket statements re your limited range of travel to meet all your requirements cover a lot of territory ... what about recreation? medical needs? a social or family circle beyond a reasonable range of your travel by bicycle?
May I ask, just who you are to dictate what others should do re their transportation choices?
I have no issue with your choice to bicycle for your needs, but to have such knowing disdain for others who utilize other methods is not appropriate. In fact, you are as dependent upon mechanized transportation as everybody else for the modern lifestyle you enjoy.
Even in your smug assessment of your personal situation where you live so conveniently close to your source of income and supplies ... everything you purchase, either in person or by delivery service ... comes by some form of mechanized transportation. You're as much a part of the demand on the transportation system as anybody else as long as you are a consumer of energy, resources, food, clothing, or any recreation except sitting on your porch in the sun.
Even your bicycle is a product of numerous chains of production, ranging from the mining which produced the minerals for the metals to the raw goods for the fabricated parts ... the rubber, plastics, saddle, saddlebags.
And there's no need for you to purchase a "status symbol" car ... there's cars that are built to accomodate a minimalist transportation need, or you can rent or pool as needed ... should the need ever arise. Your blanket statements re your limited range of travel to meet all your requirements cover a lot of territory ... what about recreation? medical needs? a social or family circle beyond a reasonable range of your travel by bicycle?
You appear to be taking this personally. Please don't. When I wrote that those of us who CAN live car-lite or car-free should do so, I was preaching to myself and others of like mind. I'm not out to convert the masses, and I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have a general disdain for those who use cars, since I own one myself. That said, I will acknowledge that it frustrates me to see stay-at-home parents drive their perfectly healthy children a half-mile to school, because they can't manage their mornings efficiently. And, please don't tell me that I'm unaware of extenuating circumstances. I know these women. They're just lazy and unorganized. Furthermore, they're frightfully inattentive when behind the wheel, but perhaps that's a topic for another thread.
I fully acknowledge that I depend on motorized transport for my lifestyle, but the vehicles that carry the goods and services I consume would most likely be on the road regardless of my car ownership. I don't believe that I should add to the traffic by maintaining a second family vehicle nor by using our existing car for every passing whim. In light of current traffic loads and the burden they put on our highways and by-ways, not to mention our natural resources, I think our family has a civic duty to live a car-lite lifestyle since we are fully able to do so. If our circumstances change, I will suffer no guilt in using our car more frequently, but I'm certainly not going to alter our family's lifestyle deliberately in a way that makes it inevitable that we will need a second car.
As for my situation, the needs you mentioned (i.e. recreation, medical needs, family visits) can be met easily by bike or some form of public transportation. You're familiar with Denver. I would think that you would know how easy it is to get around this city even in the middle of winter.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 09-09-2010 at 12:44 PM..
That was our goal, too, and two years ago, we made it happen. I love it! I would never, ever go back to a car-dependent exurban lifestyle.
To each his own. That lifestyle's just not for me.
I live out where the city folk haul their bicycles to, just to ride in the country.
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Car free definitely isn't for everyone. When you start cycling to work, it's easy to think, "Wow! How come more people don't do this?" But you have to remind yourself that it's just not feasible for a lot of people. If you have kids, live in a rural area, routinely tow large things, or have a job that requires sales calls, it's just not realistic. A lot of people have large dogs that require massive bags of food, but that's doable with a trailer. But add in a grocery store distance of a few miles and it becomes more troublesome, as does everything else.
From all the posts here, the answer is clear.
