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Anybody can learn very quickly to drive a car. There is no reason to deny people the right to drive because they don't shift gears the way an examiner wants them to or walk around the car and make sure all the lights work before they get in and start up.
In countries where lots of people ride bikes, there are bike accidents because there will always be inconsiderate or irresponsible or inexperienced riders. But nobody needs to take bicycle training or pass a test or get a license, you just get on and ride, and watch out for other people who are less skilled.
Nobody looks at a bike accident in Denmark and says "Tut tut. We should make people take bike riding in high school, or pay Kr-5,000 to a bike riding school, and pass a test and get a license and be retested every year."
97% of all licensed drivers in the USA will drive everyday, for the whole year, without a single accident. If only 3% of drivers will be involved in an accident (only 2% will cause one), what is your basis for arguing that 20% or more of all drivers should not be driving at all? 90% of the people that you want to deny driving privileges to, will not cause an accident all year. You have no statistical basis to argue license denial to all those people, except your personal opinion about some arbitrary examination.
Nothing could possibly be more unconstitutional than taking licenses away from some 40-million people who have never gotten a ticket nor caused an accident, merely because some observer didn't like the way they drove in a ten-minute test. You are accusing every American of being a homicidal driver, before the crime, and requiring them to prove their innocence at their own cost.
Anybody can learn very quickly to drive a car. There is no reason to deny people the right to drive because they don't shift gears the way an examiner wants them to or walk around the car and make sure all the lights work before they get in and start up.
In countries where lots of people ride bikes, there are bike accidents because there will always be inconsiderate or irresponsible or inexperienced riders. But nobody needs to take bicycle training or pass a test or get a license, you just get on and ride, and watch out for other people who are less skilled.
Nobody looks at a bike accident in Denmark and says "Tut tut. We should make people take bike riding in high school, or pay Kr-5,000 to a bike riding school, and pass a test and get a license and be retested every year."
97% of all licensed drivers in the USA will drive everyday, for the whole year, without a single accident. If only 3% of drivers will be involved in an accident (only 2% will cause one), what is your basis for arguing that 20% or more of all drivers should not be driving at all? 90% of the people that you want to deny driving privileges to, will not cause an accident all year. You have no statistical basis to argue license denial to all those people, except your personal opinion about some arbitrary examination.
Nothing could possibly be more unconstitutional than taking licenses away from some 40-million people who have never gotten a ticket nor caused an accident, merely because some observer didn't like the way they drove in a ten-minute test.
Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege. As such it must be earned and maintained. So any reference to constitutionality is irrelevant, and a bit silly.
Accidents are often caused by people that aren't involved in them.
A common example is the driver that constantly stomps their brakes in traffic for no good reason, causing everyone behind them to slow down, often quickly. Eventually someone half a mile away from the stomper hits his brakes a moment too late, and hits the driver in front of him. His fault? Yes. But the driver who constantly stomps his/her brakes for no reason created an unnecessary dangerous situation because of their improper driving style.
I'm sure most drivers have examples of poor drivers causing but not being involved in accidents. This is why a 10 minute road test is not enough to determine if someone can drive sensibly.
If bicycles weighed 2 tons and could take out entire families because someone answered their cell phone at the wrong time, there would definitely be riding classes.
I am always absolutely horrified when I go to the DMV for a license renewal or registration need. To consider that I am sharing the road with these imbeciles who cannot even discern what line to start in or speak/read a lick of English much less have the gumption to understand and follow sometimes complex road rules.
It takes me about 3 1/2 minutes to fly through the 30 or so questions on the written test, I might miss one, and I look at my fellow test takers having been there for an hour+ and in absolute mental agony.
My feelings are the exact opposite of yours. I think they've become too lax in their testing (both written and driving) for drivers license. If our standards were more strict then we'd have less accidents and better drivers.
Definitely agree with you. My question has always been, since the written test can be in various languages and states allow you to have a translator, how do these same people read the signs on the road once they have a license? Is that why so many people cut across 4 lanes of traffic to exit? Or ride in the fast lane, when the signs posted state to stay to the right except to pass? Curious.
Driving isn't a right, it's a privilege. . . any reference to constitutionality is irrelevant, and a bit silly.
Please don't bring up that old canard again. Its been proven wrong hundreds of times in these and other forums as well as in well-known court cases. The Constitution makes absolutely no distinction between driving a car, riding a bicycle, or riding a horse. There is an absolute constitutional right to transport your person or your property, in any conveyance of your choice. That right cannot be arbitrarily denied (it could be, if it were a privilege), but only denied showing due cause. (See Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579, or Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.)
Constitutionally, the concept of 'privilege' does not exist in the USA. All Americans have all rights, except where properly restricted by constitutionally enacted laws. What, besides the "silly" Constitution, is the source of your knowledge about this?
It's irrelevant in the context of this discussion anyway.
Quote:
If bicycles weighed 2 tons and could take out entire families because someone answered their cell phone at the wrong time, there would definitely be riding classes.
So we would all be safe, as long as everyone remembered not to answer their cellphone while the examiner is sitting in the passenger seat? If everyone remembers that little trick, how does that reduce the number of accidents caused by people answering their cellphone?
Please don't bring up that old canard again. Its been proven wrong hundreds of times in these and other forums as well as in well-known court cases. The Constitution makes absolutely no distinction between driving a car, riding a bicycle, or riding a horse. There is an absolute constitutional right to transport your person or your property, in any conveyance of your choice. That right cannot be arbitrarily denied (it could be, if it were a privilege), but only denied showing due cause. (See Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579, or Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.)
Constitutionally, the concept of 'privilege' does not exist in the USA. All Americans have all rights, except where properly restricted by constitutionally enacted laws. What, besides the "silly" Constitution, is the source of your knowledge about this?
It's irrelevant in the context of this discussion anyway.
I didn't say the Constitution is silly, I said your using it to justify whatever point you were making is. While there may be a right to convey, etc., the right for the citizenry to be safe supersedes it, to the extent of mandated training and controls. AT some point common sense must come into play as well. The Constitution was written in a different time, and must be upheld accordingly.
Location: Still in Portland, Oregon, for some reason
890 posts, read 3,701,207 times
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Personally I think this country needs to completely revamp the driver testing process to be in line with something like Germany's. American drivers cannot compare to the way Europeans (especially Germans and Fins) drive.
Location: Still in Portland, Oregon, for some reason
890 posts, read 3,701,207 times
Reputation: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
Anybody can learn very quickly to drive a car. There is no reason to deny people the right to drive because they don't shift gears the way an examiner wants them to or walk around the car and make sure all the lights work before they get in and start up.
In countries where lots of people ride bikes, there are bike accidents because there will always be inconsiderate or irresponsible or inexperienced riders. But nobody needs to take bicycle training or pass a test or get a license, you just get on and ride, and watch out for other people who are less skilled.
Nobody looks at a bike accident in Denmark and says "Tut tut. We should make people take bike riding in high school, or pay Kr-5,000 to a bike riding school, and pass a test and get a license and be retested every year."
97% of all licensed drivers in the USA will drive everyday, for the whole year, without a single accident. If only 3% of drivers will be involved in an accident (only 2% will cause one), what is your basis for arguing that 20% or more of all drivers should not be driving at all? 90% of the people that you want to deny driving privileges to, will not cause an accident all year. You have no statistical basis to argue license denial to all those people, except your personal opinion about some arbitrary examination.
Nothing could possibly be more unconstitutional than taking licenses away from some 40-million people who have never gotten a ticket nor caused an accident, merely because some observer didn't like the way they drove in a ten-minute test. You are accusing every American of being a homicidal driver, before the crime, and requiring them to prove their innocence at their own cost.
That's because when a bicycle hits a pedestrian or another bike, very rarely is anybody killed. Cars weigh multiple tons and have the potential to injure or kill people, even at low speeds. Over 6 million car accidents occur in the US every year and over 40,000 people are killed in those accidents. Driving is one of the most dangerous things you will ever do and saying that people should be held accountable for driving responsibly isn't unconstitutional. You've forgotten that driving is a privilege, not a right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
This is not because people can't drive well enough---they obviously can, as accidents are quite rare, and very seldom caused by people's failures do to what drivers tests test them for.
Accidents are not rare. One occurs every eight seconds in this country on average.
Last edited by rosecitywanderer; 10-16-2010 at 04:54 PM..
Accidents are not rare. One occurs every eight seconds in this country on average.
They are extremely rare. An accident occurs once every 400,000 miles driven. Doesn't sound to me like every fifth driver ought to be off the road. Even if every accident is caused by that 1/5 who some say shouldn't be driving at all, that would still be only one accident per 80,000 miles by the incompetents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc
The Constitution was written in a different time, and must be upheld accordingly.
The constitution allows for regulatory ordinances for activities where the public interest or safety may be affected. You have a right to work, and an employer has a right to hire you. You have a right to rent a house and a landlord has a right to rent to you. The fact that those are regulated doesn't change them from rights to privileges.
Last edited by jtur88; 10-16-2010 at 06:37 PM..
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