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Although they haven't officially released the pictures, etc. for the new Civic that will most likely be introduced after April 2011, it makes me wonder if Honda will screw up this opportunity to compete with the Prius with a hybrid that finally gets over 40 mpg without significant driver modifications. They have missed their opportunities with the Insight and the pointless CR-Z...
Any thoughts? It would be nice to have an option other than the Prius if you really wanted to get 50+ MPG and I am not sure why Toyota's competitors aren't stepping up to the plate. Is it because they just don't have the same technology?
... They have missed their opportunities with the Insight and the pointless CR-Z...
Any thoughts? It would be nice to have an option other than the Prius if you really wanted to get 50+ MPG and I am not sure why Toyota's competitors aren't stepping up to the plate. Is it because they just don't have the same technology?
Honda's insistence of using their IMA is holding them back. It's more of a mild hybrid setup, only there to boost the output of the engine but not enough to propel the car on its own. That's not to say that it absolutely pointless, but it definitely holds them back on mpg too, especially on the city cycles.
As for technology ... if they don't have it, license it from Toyota. Ford has done it. So has Mercedes Benz. And Mazda will be doing so too.
Honda's insistence of using their IMA is holding them back. It's more of a mild hybrid setup, only there to boost the output of the engine but not enough to propel the car on its own. That's not to say that it absolutely pointless, but it definitely holds them back on mpg too, especially on the city cycles.
As for technology ... if they don't have it, license it from Toyota. Ford has done it. So has Mercedes Benz. And Mazda will be doing so too.
Great post. Honda really doesn't make hybrids, their cars cannot run on electric power alone. THey are assists.
Its crazy to think they are that far behind Toyota, Ford, Hyundai, BMW, Benz and even Nissan in regards to hybrids.
It is odd to think that they are last place in the hybrid game. Especially when they were really the first with their original Honda Insight. I just don't understand the logic of hybrids these days. They rarely get better gas mileage than their gas counterparts.
Well, in Honda's defense, at least their hybrid does make some real difference. GM's older BAS hybrid system was more akin to start-stop technology and its paltry mpg gains raised the question of "why buy a hybrid?". Their newer two-mode system (GM/BMW/Chrysler co-designed) offers greater improvement, but it's much more expensive to implement.
There's no rocket science to it. To yield higher mpg gains, the hybrid has to be able to propel itself by electricity alone. The higher the speed it's able to do so, the greater the opportunity not to use any fuel.
A quick search of electric-only-to-gas-engine changeover speed ...
Honda Insight / CR-Z / Civic - 0 mph
Chevy Silverado / GMC Sierra & Yukon - 30 mph
Ford Escape - 40 mph
Toyota Prius - 40 mph
Nissan Altima - 40 mph
Ford Fusion - 47 mph
Hyundai Sonata - 62 mph
Narfcake - I think you are misinterpreting whatever you read about electric-only speeds.
For example the Hyundai Sonata cannot reach 60 MPH on batteries only. Under certain circumstances though it can run at 60 MPH on battery only - if the vehicle is already underway and conditions are favorable. A direct quote from the Gearlog article:
On battery alone, it's possible to go about a mile from standstill before the engine kicks in. Hyundai rates the Sonata at 9.2 seconds from standstill to 60 mph. So can you 0-62 mph (0-100 kph) on battery power alone with more leisurely accelerationj? Not a chance, unless you're going down Pikes Peak and someone gave you a push start. What Hyundai apparently means is that under some circumstances when you're already doing around 60 mph, and you're on level road or a slight downhill (where there's still more wind resistance than drag from the tires and road), you could for a stretch run on just the battery. That's still more than just coming off the throttle at high speed and coasting down to a lower speed on battery power alone, which is really no power at all when you're decelerating.
Car Review: Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Tops the Field - Gearlog (http://www.gearlog.com/2010/10/car_review_hyundai_sonata_hybr.php?utm_source=feed burner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ziffdavi s/gearlog-ziffdavis+(Gearlog - broken link))
Honda's hybrid efforts are full of failures imo - the IMA technology just isn't as good as the competition, and the final product - other than the Civic Hybrid - is not compelling.
If I wanted a high-mileage compact car, I'd give the Ford Fiesta a hard look - 40+ mpg on regular gas and a great in-car information system - plus no batteries and associated complexity to worry about. Hyundai has astounding mpg numbers in the Sonata, and now there is a Sonata Hybrid on its way for near Civic Hybrid money. Meanwhile, Honda releases product like the CR-Zzz - slow and poor mpg. Honda is imo selling its reputation these days, not great product.
As far a GM goes, it admittedly sold "lite" hybrids at a small premium - a bid for hybrid sales that aime to appeal for lower costs, but didn't translate to sales because the system wasn't worth it. Honda is not as bad, but its close to it.
Although they haven't officially released the pictures, etc. for the new Civic that will most likely be introduced after April 2011, it makes me wonder if Honda will screw up this opportunity to compete with the Prius with a hybrid that finally gets over 40 mpg without significant driver modifications. They have missed their opportunities with the Insight and the pointless CR-Z...
Any thoughts? It would be nice to have an option other than the Prius if you really wanted to get 50+ MPG and I am not sure why Toyota's competitors aren't stepping up to the plate. Is it because they just don't have the same technology?
I own an insight. I drive the same speed as traffic & have been getting 50+ mpg all summer. I'll link you to my fuelly account if you don't believe me. There's lots & lots of other Insight drivers (second generation) getting more than me.
I test drove the new Prius & then the Insight. I hated the Prius, but loved the way the Insight drove & looked. Then saw that Insight owners were getting 2 - 3 mpg less & said it's definitely worth it to save 2 to 3 thousand dollars compared to a similar model prius. I spent a long time dealing with dealers & got them down to invoice.
Last edited by everwinter; 10-26-2010 at 09:11 PM..
Great post. Honda really doesn't make hybrids, their cars cannot run on electric power alone. THey are assists.
What are you talking about? I run on electric power alone all the time. Here's a youtube video of an insight owner doing this exact thing. Notice the bars are going from only the battery to the car with NO input from the engine.
It is odd to think that they are last place in the hybrid game. Especially when they were really the first with their original Honda Insight. I just don't understand the logic of hybrids these days. They rarely get better gas mileage than their gas counterparts.
What gas powered car gets close to a hybrid? I owned a focus & got 28 to 30 mpg. Like I wrote above I now own a 2010 insight & get 50+ mpg. No comparison.
What hybrid is ahead of the insight?? Maybe the prius, but it's a lot more expensive, terrible to drive, ugly, more expensive to maintain (oil changes more expensive, oil changes needed more often), & it only get slightly better mpg, so it's not worth it. After I test drove the insight the salesman asked me what I though & I told him it reminded me of the school bus I drove for summer camp awhile back. Weird brakes, and feels like it'll roll over on corners.
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2012 Honda Civic Hybrid
