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Old 11-17-2010, 10:01 AM
 
16,623 posts, read 14,361,751 times
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I'll tell you what's annoying ---


when you take great care of your car, and everything runs fine (although $400 parts are prone to breaking)... until your car doesn't crank one morning, and you take it to the shop.

the mechanic at the shop tells you that your crankshaft will not move, and that there are metal shards everywhere inside of the timing cover. You will need a new engine, since this one is finished.

and this is a 65,000 mile Lincoln vehicle. One of those "modern and dependable" Fords. One of those that all these people keep saying, "Are MUCH improved from the older, unreliable Fords."

Ford Motor Company, of course, just tells me I'm not under warranty anymore (it's an '03), so.... "too bad." what was that Ford slogan again? Quality is job 1? Build Ford tough?
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:30 AM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 20 days ago)
 
13,671 posts, read 17,539,874 times
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I think when most people are referring to Ford's improved quality they are referencing newer product, say 2007+.

What is the year/make/model in question? My assumption would be a Lincoln LS. If I had to guess one of the timing chain tensioners/guides failed and the resulting damage was caused by cranking the motor when you were trying to start it or driving it when the issue first started. The part shouldn't have necessarily failed, but it is rather common on these engines and given the age of the car (even with the relatively low miles) it doesn't surprise me.

I would like to know how your mechanic determined the crank was seized. If the tensioner or a guide failed and took out the chain, it wouldn't have necessarily grenaded the entire engine unless you were cranking the crap out of it to get it started or were trying to drive it. I would say go ahead and tear down the engine and look to see whether or not there is damage to the valves. If the valves are still in good shape, then the damage may be isolated to the timing assembly. If it is just the timing assembly and not the entire motor, it will probably only cost ~$2,500 to get it fixed.

FWIW, timing chain/belt issues and failures are not all that uncommon on any make/model.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:43 AM
 
16,623 posts, read 14,361,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I think when most people are referring to Ford's improved quality they are referencing newer product, say 2007+.
well, they said that in 2005. when they said that in 2005, they were referencing newer product, like 2003+

when they said it in 2003, they were referencing newer product, like the new 2000 models.

i've been witness to this perpetual cycle of "new and improved products" from Ford, since at least 1995.

Quote:
What is the year/make/model in question? My assumption would be a Lincoln LS. If I had to guess one of the timing chain tensioners/guides failed and the resulting damage was caused by cranking the motor when you were trying to start it or driving it when the issue first started. The part shouldn't have necessarily failed, but it is rather common on these engines and given the age of the car (even with the relatively low miles) it doesn't surprise me.
yup, LS.

Quote:
I would like to know how your mechanic determined the crank was seized. If the tensioner or a guide failed and took out the chain, it wouldn't have necessarily grenaded the entire engine unless you were cranking the crap out of it to get it started or were trying to drive it. I would say go ahead and tear down the engine and look to see whether or not there is damage to the valves. If the valves are still in good shape, then the damage may be isolated to the timing assembly. If it is just the timing assembly and not the entire motor, it will probably only cost ~$2,500 to get it fixed.
early on, the symtoms were: would not crank, no pressure in right half of engine, and it "might be the timing".

Now he says the timing system is "intact," although I'm not clear if that means it is fully functional or not.

I'm not sure how he determined that the crank was seized, but he's certain that it is. He mentioned that he thought that "I might have broken a rod, or it may be the bearings."

Quote:
FWIW, timing chain/belt issues and failures are not all that uncommon on any make/model.
hmm, well, i never had one before. and i don't know that this is a "timing chain issue", exactly. i do appreciate the advice, though.
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Old 11-17-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
2,591 posts, read 3,948,656 times
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So you are telling me one night you drove the car home just fine and parked it. The next morning you woke up and the engine was seized?
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:09 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
5,942 posts, read 6,227,908 times
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I feel your pain but "stuff happens"
My uncle bought a brand new Rolls Royce in Manhattan, the transmission gave out on the GW Bridge going back to Jersey. ( it was a GM transmission)
100K racing engines using the best part available sometimes fail minutes after starting a race.
It is unfortunate that this happened to your Lincoln but it had nothing to do with it being a Ford product.
Here is a list of all automobiles that have never had an engine failure.

Short list wasn't it?
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
9,361 posts, read 13,072,797 times
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my 91 F250 with the 5.0EFI has 210,000 miles and she is still running stong but if she went after 20 year's of service and 7 years of off-road abuse and towing a 18ft boat through the rockies 2 times a year for me then it did it's job and was a great little motor although very under powered it always made me wish I had got the 5.8 liter or 460 EFI instead.


anyways once she dies or is near dead I saved up enough $$$ to go buy a nice 99-03 super duty 7.3 power stroke diesel just having trouble finding it with a manual 6-speed tranny, manual locking hubs and manual transfer case.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:49 AM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 20 days ago)
 
13,671 posts, read 17,539,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
early on, the symtoms were: would not crank, no pressure in right half of engine, and it "might be the timing".

Now he says the timing system is "intact," although I'm not clear if that means it is fully functional or not.

I'm not sure how he determined that the crank was seized, but he's certain that it is. He mentioned that he thought that "I might have broken a rod, or it may be the bearings."

hmm, well, i never had one before. and i don't know that this is a "timing chain issue", exactly. i do appreciate the advice, though.
That engine uses two independent timing chains, each controlling one bank of the engine. The fact there is no pressure in the right bank, would lead me to believe that is where the failure occurred. Even if the system is "intact" the tensioner still could have failed allowing the chains/cams to jump a tooth or two and throw the whole thing out of whack, which could have led to valves contacting the pistons and caused the greater failure. I would really look for a second opinion from someone with more experience on these motors. The type of failure he's hinting at is not at all common on those cars. An Indy Jaguar shop would be a good place to look if there is one near you.
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Old 11-17-2010, 11:50 AM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 20 days ago)
 
13,671 posts, read 17,539,874 times
Reputation: 11857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
So you are telling me one night you drove the car home just fine and parked it. The next morning you woke up and the engine was seized?
If it was a timing chain issue, that is generally exactly what happens. Starting the car is most often when something will finally let go.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:37 PM
 
16,623 posts, read 14,361,751 times
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well, he's quoting me $4200 - $4600 to install a used engine.. found 3 with 17k, 33k, or 55k miles.

i don't know if it is worth it, since the car is getting no interest on craigslist at $7k, and probably would get $4k-$5k on a trade in.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
9,361 posts, read 13,072,797 times
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I don't see how you would hope to get 7K with a car that has blown motor on craiglist though
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