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Old 01-11-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,012 posts, read 7,581,572 times
Reputation: 2260
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
New 2011 Subaru Impreza WRX For Sale | Plano - Dallas, TX | VIN: JF1GV7E63BG510770

Same car in Colorado Springs is listed with an MSRP a grand below that, and an Internet price approx $2k below, the same is true for the 2.5 models too, and the CS one actually had premium package.

It might just be poor price listing as you suggest, but it certainly makes me want to fly up to Colorado...

The one in Plano has a carbon fiber trunk kit and an STi short-throw shifter, as well as a cargo tray as compared to the less-expensive one in Colorado Springs. So it's not the same car.

It has nothing to do with the dealerships charging more for anything. It's just the configured cars on the ground. It's the options on them. MSRP is MSRP everywhere.

In fact, Subaru's in Texas are usually a better deal due to less demand. If you're in the market for one, PM me. I know a guy at a Subaru dealership here, he'll take really good care of you.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:33 AM
 
Location: East of Seattle, originally from SF Bay Area
13,393 posts, read 15,192,913 times
Reputation: 8825
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Anyone buying cars in high demand might see a dealer attempting to sell the vehicle for more than MSRP. There is nothing illegal about it as long as the MSRP is available for comparison.

However it is a terrible idea for a buyer to succumb to this. If you are rich, and really need that exotic sports car, go for it. But an ordinary car (even a good one) like a Ford Fusion should not be purchased under those conditions. Choose a different vehicle or buy it somewhere else.
Good points. If people refuse to pay it they will stop charging it.
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Michigan--good on the rocks
2,544 posts, read 2,012,865 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Merc63 got the point.

Why is it that cars have become the one thing everyone haggles on, yet we gladly go along with other merchandise having markups cars would never have?

The absolute best example would be inkjet printers, where the 9 ml cartridge is sold for about the same price as the store pays for 1L of ink.

I'm not saying not to try and get the best price you can on a car, but I do think car sellers have gotten an unreasonable unfavorable reputation.

I mean I bought about 20 cardboard folders from Staples, the retail on the total was about $60, since my cousin works there I got his employee discount and paid $15 and they still made money on the sale! I buy ink, paper, pens etc. for probably $5-700 a year,(ink for my photo printer has a lot to do with that) it's safe to say that at the very least 75% of that is pure cash in pocket for the seller (so $375-525), I've heard of plenty people (on the forum here alone) who has or would walk out on an otherwise ideal car purchase for much less than that.

...Yet it's the dealerships that rip us off.
Because cars are one of the most expensive items most people will ever buy. It's not about percentage, it's about real dollars. If I'm going to spend, say, $25,000 on a purchase, it makes good sense for me to seek out the best deal. I can shop around, and I would. But if I give a dealer a chance to give me a better deal on the spot, then that gives him the chance to retain me as a customer instead of losing me to the guy down the street.

The gains in your rather absurd comparison to office supplies are only pennies, not thousands of dollars, so the comparison is pointless.

Would you suggest that no one haggle on housing purchases as well?
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Ohio
578 posts, read 883,382 times
Reputation: 404
This practice is nothing new. For example, when GTR, Z06, and ZR1 first came out, their prices were all bumped up above MSRP.

Sadly, there are people who would pay that kind of money. Truly, I wish I had that kind of problem (more money than sense) ...
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,466 posts, read 4,839,664 times
Reputation: 2709
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanman13 View Post
Because cars are one of the most expensive items most people will ever buy. It's not about percentage, it's about real dollars. If I'm going to spend, say, $25,000 on a purchase, it makes good sense for me to seek out the best deal. I can shop around, and I would. But if I give a dealer a chance to give me a better deal on the spot, then that gives him the chance to retain me as a customer instead of losing me to the guy down the street.

The gains in your rather absurd comparison to office supplies are only pennies, not thousands of dollars, so the comparison is pointless.

Would you suggest that no one haggle on housing purchases as well?
I think I answered what you're asking in the post you quoted.

Have I at any point suggested you shouldn't try and get a good price on your car? In the post you quoted I even specifically stated "I'm not saying not to try and get the best price you can on a car.

So no, I don't think you should blindly accept any price for any car, nor house.

I'm commenting on the apparent double standard.

Personally I shop around for everything I buy, and purchase a lot of it online, and your point about it being about dollars and not percentages is weak at best. As it has the premise that the buyer has an incredibly short attention span.

Take me as an example, say I buy a new (to me) car every 3 years, say I shop around in the $25.000 market. A reasonable discount in this market would probably be $1500-2000, but for the sake of comparison lets say $3600. Spread out over 3 years, that makes $1200 a year in savings.

Now look at all other consumer products (you could even throw groceries in there) as you can see can potentially save $3-500 on stationary and printer ink alone, by using contacts and shopping for deals. Add in other things, such as the $100 coffemaker I just paid $40 for, brand new, the powerdrill I got for $300 under MSRP etc, and the potential savings will probably easily outnumber that of the car.

My point is this: Why are dealerships subject to different criteria than sellers of other products, both cheap and expensive, with much higher markup? It's seems like some people out there buying cars expect the dealerships to sell them at no profit, what's so hard with accepting that they too run a business, need to make money off of it, and charge the true market value for their products? Which in some cases means they'll increase the price of a vehicle above MSRP.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:10 PM
 
5,178 posts, read 2,116,017 times
Reputation: 2476
That 'adjusted market value' is a crock and yet another chance for an auto dealer to sucker a customer into paying it, or using that price as a starting point for negotiations.

The Detroit Three have gotten religion about why the old method of keeping the factories humming, dumping unsold new cars on rental fleets, and having to resort to fire-sale level financing methods in order to move their cars off their lots doesn't work anymore.

Numerous articles in Automobile News, the WSJ & elsewhere have detailed this shift in selling strategy, even as some dealers are screaming for more product.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Central New Jersey
1,288 posts, read 3,981,456 times
Reputation: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post
Go to Canada...... The dealer has to still do the warrenty work. Or tell the dealer you will go to Canada if they don't wipe the fee off the deal.
Warranty work for a car purchased in the USA can not be done in Canada. One of the biggest issues when I was looking at cars for friends in Canada was that the warranty was void when it crossed state lines.

As for the topic:

I have seen this before but it tends to be either on brand new cars with limited production so they are catering to the person that wants to be first to have the car. The only other time I see this is on limited edition exotic cars (especially new model "it car" Ferraris), and again they are playing on the person that wants to have it first. It is the old saying, of got to pay to play with these. If a dealer is doing this on a car that is neither of the above, then they are just insaine.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago
35,926 posts, read 54,687,285 times
Reputation: 24543
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
I live in Washington state and have been looking around the car lots at new cars. Many dealers(but not all) have a sticker right next to the MSRP sticker called the "adjusted market value". In my area they are adding $1995.00 above the MSRP.
Do you have this in your area? Is this just a negotiating ploy?
Around here you only see this on a new model that has very high initial demand. And in those cases it's not just a negotiating ploy; you either pay the markup or you take a hike because they know someone else will pay.

I remember when the WRX hit the shores 10 years ago, they were fetching about 3-4K over MSRP for the first couple months. The first Evos to hit our shores were getting as much as $10K over MSRP. But after a few months, increased supply and waning initial demand brought the asking price on both back down to MSRP. Some Volkswagen dealers put markups on their diesels back in 2008 when gas prices surpassed 4 bucks a gallon, but as gas prices came back down the markups disappeared.

Sometimes if a dealer gets a rare flagship/performance model, they'll put an outrageous markup on it because they don't actually want to sell it; they want it as a marketing showpiece on their floor. But if they find someone willing to pay a markup exceeding the marketing value of keeping it on their floor, they'll sell it to 'em.
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:18 PM
 
18,428 posts, read 6,634,293 times
Reputation: 7750
It has always been common to use AMV on limited production and hard to get models.

Supply and demand.

When the 2002 Thunderbird came out, the dealership that I managed charged $5,000 over list, because we could. Especially since you couldn't get them for less anywhere.

Guess what? The 1st 25 that we sold were at an average of $3500 over MSRP!

Those were the days!

When the shine wore off, after about 8 months, they started selling at a discount.

There's nothing wrong with it.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:31 PM
 
Location: NYC & NJ
747 posts, read 1,343,571 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
I'm commenting on the apparent double standard.

Personally I shop around for everything I buy, and purchase a lot of it online, and your point about it being about dollars and not percentages is weak at best. As it has the premise that the buyer has an incredibly short attention span.

Take me as an example, say I buy a new (to me) car every 3 years, say I shop around in the $25.000 market. A reasonable discount in this market would probably be $1500-2000, but for the sake of comparison lets say $3600. Spread out over 3 years, that makes $1200 a year in savings.

Now look at all other consumer products (you could even throw groceries in there) as you can see can potentially save $3-500 on stationary and printer ink alone, by using contacts and shopping for deals. Add in other things, such as the $100 coffemaker I just paid $40 for, brand new, the powerdrill I got for $300 under MSRP etc, and the potential savings will probably easily outnumber that of the car.

My point is this: Why are dealerships subject to different criteria than sellers of other products, both cheap and expensive, with much higher markup? It's seems like some people out there buying cars expect the dealerships to sell them at no profit, what's so hard with accepting that they too run a business, need to make money off of it, and charge the true market value for their products? Which in some cases means they'll increase the price of a vehicle above MSRP.
What makes you think people don't price shop for other purchases such as TVs, computers, appliances, power tools, etc? OTOH most people aren't in your line of work and hence probably don't spend even a fraction of what you do on stationary and ink.

BTW, there is really no end to what frugality one can achieve if you spend enough time on it (e.g. shopping for the best price on each grocery item vs shopping at the store that generally offers best values). Everyone's time is worth something different, so everyone will have a different threshold on where they attempt to maximize savings. I don't print much at home, so maybe I'll spend $30-40 every two years on printers and/or ink. It's simply not worth my time to spend anything more than a couple minutes, if any, finding the best prices on these. OTOH I am quite happy on the prices I have researched & paid on larger ticket items.

PS: if you really want to start preaching frugality, why not recommend spending $5k every 10 years on cars, rather than $25 every 3 years?
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