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Old 03-17-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,484,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Power to weight ratio (approximate) for a 1970 Porsche is about 12.7, for a 1970 Boss it's (approximately) 11.4, so the Mustang wins there. But the Mustang also weighs about 1000lbs more than the Porsche; on handling, I'd put my money on the Porsche. So it depends: how much of a gap can the 'Stang put on the Porsche before it hits the turn?
I've owned and raced both (had a number of early Porsches for autocross and 3 70 mustangs, one of which was used for autocross and track days and trophied at it with zero money invested in it).

On the track, cornering is about grip, and the Mustang has no problem with that, as the BMWs found out in current Grand Am racing where the Mustangs were beating them.



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Old 03-17-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: United States
2,497 posts, read 6,234,488 times
Reputation: 2219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackandgold51 View Post
There's been generalizations to this day that American Muscle Cars cannot out handle Exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis even though AMCs are fast in a straight and so on so as in quality and other catagories.
I just love cars. I love Bugatti Veyrons and Lamborghini's as well as Mustang Shelby's and Dodge Challengers. Also like old muscle like Chargers and Camaros and Chevelles. I dont hate supercars and I dont hate american muscle. They each have thier own history and their own feel. i dont see it as a war.
I would equally love to own a Gallardo and a 1970 Chevelle SS. It's all good, it's all speed, it's all style.
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Harwington CT
240 posts, read 1,167,133 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
This is worth posting again.. 1000 hp.. . The new Ford V8's are nothing short of amazing. And the 2013 GT500 is going to be over 600 hp from the factory. They just keep upping the hp..

How does the challenger RT hang with the GT500?
He he, good question. As I already stated i'm one of those old diehard Mopar Musclecar guys. But gotta be honest here, the new Chrysler stuff is what it is. You put the SRT8 Challenger 6.2L lined up vs. the Shelby GT-500 and take a Vette Z06 in this drag race and the Challenger finishes FOURTH. For sure, Ford and Chevrolets Corvette seems to be from different planets at this time!
The Challenger looks really nice, especially from the front however its the same car as the Magnum wagon and the Charger SRT built on the exact same platform. Damn heavy car. My brother just sold (his) Magnum R/T last week, was a 5.7L AWD and pretty hopped up. The car was fun, it could really "get it on" and was flat out fast but is clearly not in the class with even the new GT Mustangs with the new 302 engine.

To compare old vs new Mopar: Last year when I was still using the factory Hi-Po manifolds and smallish 650 Eddy Thunder carb on my '70 Dusters stroker smallblock (killed me for 59 peak HP on the dyno vs the TTI step headers) . The Duster could walk on the 5.7L Hemi Magnum easy. I smoked a new black Challenger RT last spring as well with the Duster.
His Magnum ran mid 13's @ 104 which is pretty good at 4400 lbs. My Duster was low 13's (street tires) with the tiny carb and HP robbing manifolds with only a 3.55:1 gear. ET was 106-108 mph. I was getting aweful reaction times, should have cut 12's despite the damn manifolds but that my my driver error. I'm still a bit quicker that even the SRT8 Challenger. I can tell you even with the 800 Edelbrock and TTI headers installed on the Duster- after the dyno tune the car will be easy low 12's and I wouldnt even think of coaxing the supercharged Vette or a Shelby GT500KR
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:47 PM
 
3,129 posts, read 5,142,402 times
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Not even close. A 25 year old F40 or 959 would give any American car made fits. That said I love them all and there is nothing like a V-8 muscle car from America!
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Old 03-18-2011, 04:40 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,782,845 times
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Actually I was wondering how your 70 Challenger 440 stood against the GT500.. You were saying how scary fast the 70 was and I was wondering how it fared against the Shelby.. Big block torque vs high rpm forced induction small v8


Quote:
Originally Posted by tom62 View Post
He he, good question. As I already stated i'm one of those old diehard Mopar Musclecar guys. But gotta be honest here, the new Chrysler stuff is what it is. You put the SRT8 Challenger 6.2L lined up vs. the Shelby GT-500 and take a Vette Z06 in this drag race and the Challenger finishes FOURTH. For sure, Ford and Chevrolets Corvette seems to be from different planets at this time!
The Challenger looks really nice, especially from the front however its the same car as the Magnum wagon and the Charger SRT built on the exact same platform. Damn heavy car. My brother just sold (his) Magnum R/T last week, was a 5.7L AWD and pretty hopped up. The car was fun, it could really "get it on" and was flat out fast but is clearly not in the class with even the new GT Mustangs with the new 302 engine.

To compare old vs new Mopar: Last year when I was still using the factory Hi-Po manifolds and smallish 650 Eddy Thunder carb on my '70 Dusters stroker smallblock (killed me for 59 peak HP on the dyno vs the TTI step headers) . The Duster could walk on the 5.7L Hemi Magnum easy. I smoked a new black Challenger RT last spring as well with the Duster.
His Magnum ran mid 13's @ 104 which is pretty good at 4400 lbs. My Duster was low 13's (street tires) with the tiny carb and HP robbing manifolds with only a 3.55:1 gear. ET was 106-108 mph. I was getting aweful reaction times, should have cut 12's despite the damn manifolds but that my my driver error. I'm still a bit quicker that even the SRT8 Challenger. I can tell you even with the 800 Edelbrock and TTI headers installed on the Duster- after the dyno tune the car will be easy low 12's and I wouldnt even think of coaxing the supercharged Vette or a Shelby GT500KR
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,484,624 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
Not even close. A 25 year old F40 or 959 would give any American car made fits.
So you're saying if you want to beat an american muscle car in the twisties, you need to spend a half million on a European sports car...



The Mustang ahead of the F40 was faster on the autocross track, but the F40 blew by it on the airport runway in a half mile "drag" race. And the owner of the F40, Greg Whitten, is an accomplished racer, so it' snot becau he sucked at driving.

But, that generation Mustang didn't have leaf springs, either. Still, that particular Mustang was his daily driver with a full interior...
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Old 03-18-2011, 09:37 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,138,585 times
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I don't understand the comparison between European exotics and American Iron.
Those comparisons sell magazines but it is not what's happening on the track.
I spend a good amount of time at Open track/club events and European exotics are few and far between except for Marque events, Ferrari Club, Italian sports car club, etc.

Most of the cars are Mustangs, Corvettes, M-3's and a few Porsche Gt-2 or GT-3 plus tons of FWD everyday drivers.

With a few exceptions most of the exotics are driven by posers who just want to show off their rides.
You can always tell the Ferrari drivers, $1,500 Schumacher driving suit and helmet $200 sun glasses. And then you have the Viper drivers. Sleeveless tee shirts and tattoos.

Whatever it's all fun.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Harwington CT
240 posts, read 1,167,133 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
Actually I was wondering how your 70 Challenger 440 stood against the GT500.. You were saying how scary fast the 70 was and I was wondering how it fared against the Shelby.. Big block torque vs high rpm forced induction small v8
Oh, I didnt get that part. Some info on the engine build first: The R/T is actually a modified 383. We don't like the 440. The high block 440s are too heavy. Anyhoo, the 383 is pretty hot, has fully ported Stage IV heads by Hughes Engineering, port matched intake, special grind Hughes roller camshaft <very aggressive> we have like $11,000 into this high end engine build. During the dyno runs, we had to shut down at 5,000 RPM due to noise ordinance after 9pm, and at 5K rpm we were already getting 550HP
This is just to give ya an idea what kind of performance we are getting from the Challenger.

Compared to our '08 Shelby GT-500 ............its not even a contest. We are talking an 11 second 70's primo musclecar that is actually dangerous to drive (in an aggressive fashion) on the street, barely gets 9 MPG and needs special high octane fuel blend. The Shelby can blast right by the Challenger. Its such a no-contest that while he drove the Cobra and I the Challenger he had to ask me "were you even into it?" I was all-out, shifting at just under 7,000 rpm and the R/T was just tearing the street up! He had to laugh and realized he would have had no idea I was even trying to win a race, let alone keep up!

When you think about it, the 383 is modified to the point where if we made it any faster, it would not be reliable for the street at all. a 10 sec muscle machine is a "drive on the trailer-back it off the trailer" ride. As it is now, its street manners are borderline. But thats the biggest difference, could get the R/T to go 10's or even 9's, but you sacrafice the fun of street driving unless you do "power adders" , 6 speed trans and modify the suspension and brakes which is added up a $30,000 expence.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Harwington CT
240 posts, read 1,167,133 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
I don't understand the comparison between European exotics and American Iron.
Those comparisons sell magazines but it is not what's happening on the track.
I spend a good amount of time at Open track/club events and European exotics are few and far between except for Marque events, Ferrari Club, Italian sports car club, etc.

Most of the cars are Mustangs, Corvettes, M-3's and a few Porsche Gt-2 or GT-3 plus tons of FWD everyday drivers.

With a few exceptions most of the exotics are driven by posers who just want to show off their rides.
You can always tell the Ferrari drivers, $1,500 Schumacher driving suit and helmet $200 sun glasses. And then you have the Viper drivers. Sleeveless tee shirts and tattoos.

Whatever it's all fun.
Excellent points! Couldnt have said it better. Adds to the satisfaction of being in the GT-500 (MSRP was like 45K) with less tha 5K in mods and seeing the face of a wealthy billionaire in his three quarter million dollar 850HP exotic (oh yea, add the platinum blonde Playboy bunny in the pass side) as he takes aim on the lowly Ford on the interstate. Then watches the S-H-E-L-B-Y letters quickly dissapear before his eyes. Sure is all fun...
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Harwington CT
240 posts, read 1,167,133 times
Reputation: 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
So you're saying if you want to beat an american muscle car in the twisties, you need to spend a half million on a European sports car...



The Mustang ahead of the F40 was faster on the autocross track, but the F40 blew by it on the airport runway in a half mile "drag" race. And the owner of the F40, Greg Whitten, is an accomplished racer, so it' snot becau he sucked at driving.

But, that generation Mustang didn't have leaf springs, either. Still, that particular Mustang was his daily driver with a full interior...
Yea, that just the Fox body Mustang equipped with the basic smallblock.
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