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Old 03-14-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,790 posts, read 12,632,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodiesel4x4 View Post
I have heard this myself, but wonder if that applies to a used diesel. I bought mine when it was 5 years old. Its sticker, when new, was around 45 grand. I got it for 16 grand. Is that premium non existent in a used diesel?
Well, it is the same for used hybrids. However, people tend to buy them new for the tax credits (although Toyota and Honda have probably used all theirs up by now) and the fact that they want as long a warranty as possible for the batteries. Plus they get to use the HOV lanes, sometimes special parking (particularly plug-ins) so there's some extra perks to stoke the buyer's ego too.

If you put it to pen and paper, used definitely saves, but then a used non diesel non hybrid probably saves even more. Its just that hybrids have a much better PR machine then diesel does in this country and the price per gallon.
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:50 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, originally from SF Bay Area
28,381 posts, read 50,562,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodiesel4x4 View Post
I have heard this myself, but wonder if that applies to a used diesel. I bought mine when it was 5 years old. Its sticker, when new, was around 45 grand. I got it for 16 grand. Is that premium non existent in a used diesel?
Faster depreciation due to lack of buyers interested in it. The same reason a used Honda sells for closer to the new price than a Hyundai.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,091,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bisjoe View Post
Faster depreciation due to lack of buyers interested in it. The same reason a used Honda sells for closer to the new price than a Hyundai.
Most of the diesels sold in this country are in heavy duty (3/4 ton and over) pickup trucks. In those, the manufacturers have been in a power race for about 10 years--fuel economy of the each newer model generally being less than the previous. When the diesel emission standards tightened in 2007, fuel economy took a serious hit. The new diesel pickups are getting somewhat better fuel economy, but only at a price of urea injection and other technologies that add to vehicle cost.

The prices for used diesel pickups have gone soft because, fact is, they get poor fuel economy when compared with fuel-efficient cars and, quite frankly, a lot of people who bought diesel pickups in the last 10 years really didn't need them--they were bought for the "I'm cool, I drive a big pickup" factor. High fuel prices are washing those people out of the pickup truck market (and good riddance, in my view). The people who actually use a pickup for its intended purpose (and I'm one) are perfectly happy being able to buy used pickups at a fraction of their original cost from people who never used them for any more than a grocery hauler. I quit using a pickup as a "daily driver" way back in the fuel crisis of the late 1970's.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:56 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 9,006,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Hmmm....I haven't heard of anyone driving a M-B or VW diesel for anywhere near a million miles. Nor a Cummins or Powerstroke etc. I know people who drove old MB 240D cars for close to 500K miles, but that's it. Sure there may be a few others, but the rest of the vehicle will be long worn out so I think million mile engine durability is irrelevent for consumer vehicles.
I don't know about VW's but the old M-B diesels make up for their pitiful power output with extreme reliability. There are countless occurrences of Cummins (mainly 6BT) engines exceeding the million mile mark on original components... Powerstrokes can easily hit those marks as well but require a bit more coddling.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 24,608,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Hauler View Post
I don't know about VW's but the old M-B diesels make up for their pitiful power output with extreme reliability. There are countless occurrences of Cummins (mainly 6BT) engines exceeding the million mile mark on original components... Powerstrokes can easily hit those marks as well but require a bit more coddling.
But my point is that someone driving their car 12,000 miles per year will likely grow tired of it, or other major parts will crumble long before the engine is done.

Some people will keep a car for 250k miles. But not many.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in Kentucky
3,790 posts, read 7,560,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
But my point is that someone driving their car 12,000 miles per year will likely grow tired of it, or other major parts will crumble long before the engine is done.

Some people will keep a car for 250k miles. But not many.
You can't even get people to keep a perfectly good cell phone for more than a few months.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
13,388 posts, read 42,701,155 times
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Gas engines last a lot longer now too, back in the 60's you had to tune and rebuild gas engines more often than Diesel, but just one for-example, my old Scirocco has gone 150K miles with just a couple of tuneups, only having to adjust the timing when I do the timing belt, the Toy and Sube have both gone 250K each with almost nothing beyond one timing belt change in the Sube, and while I had the head off the Toy I think that was more due to inept previous maintenance than to age and wear. Just sayin'.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:51 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,014,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
It's a conspiracy!
Some of the work I do is for the car manufacturers and I get to meet and talk to many of the higher ups, up to the CEO level. The diesel question has come up.

There is no conspiracy. The manufacturers would love to sell diesels here, but so far for most they have not been able to make a business case for it, based on sales other manufacturers have made like VW. If there was a demand they would be more than happy to sell them. In addition the other big problem is the US emissions standards and meeting those takes millions of dollars in developmental costs.

Most people don't realize what goes into producing cars today that meet government standards. I think many just think you can mix and match whatever engines you want, but the reality is far different. Any car/engine combo today you see has millions of miles of real world testing done on it from the freezing Arjeplog in Sweden to Death Valley in California, not to mention tons of engineering and development. The amount of work that goes into car models today, the average person could not even fathom.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Pompey, NY
405 posts, read 1,234,488 times
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As the owner of a 2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDi I'd like to clear up a few misstatements.
1) The car is clean. Does not stink. The exhaust does smell a little like bleach while running, and inside reminds me a little of the inside of a jetliner, possibly because of a little fuel smell. I like it.

2) The car is powerful. Great on the hills around here, just pulls like a train.

3) Does get great milage, so far averages about 39 mpg, with as much as 50 on long trips.

I got a tax credit of $1300 on this years return, which helps offset the higher purchase price. It should also be noted that used VW diesels sell for at least as much more as the price differential between it and the equivalent gas model when new.
This car gets twice the milage of the one it replaced, a 2007 Honda Element. At that rate gas would have to be half the price of diesel to make the choice an uneconomical one. One top of all that, the VW is great to drive and very well built.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:17 PM
 
9,816 posts, read 19,014,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
Diesel would be great for people who drive plenty of highway miles. I've heard that Audi makes a diesel powered race car. It's advantage is fewer fuel stops. I've never driven a diesel myself but I'd consider one for the fuel saving.
Audi has raced diesel powered sports prototypes for 6 seasons now, the R10, R15, R18. They race some in the American Le Mans Series(ALMS) and at Le Mans and sportscar races in Europe.

I've seen it race in person at Sebring. It's a very different sensation compared to a petrol powered car. You don't hear it coming except for a whoosh of air and then the sound of the engine as it goes past. Very quiet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY18T...eature=related

Peugeot also has run a diesel sports prototype at Le Mans and selected ALMS races as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv8Bq...feature=fvwrel
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