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Old 07-19-2012, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
25,387 posts, read 16,335,182 times
Reputation: 14123

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badgmc View Post
They're thinking that they have the same freedom to lower their trucks as others have to lift their trucks and so they decide to build their trucks to fit their style, their tastes and their needs. Not everyone has to work their trucks hard or take them down the trails.

Pot holes and speed bumps don't stop low sports cars and they don't stop lowered trucks.
Their vehicle and their choice, I just don't understand why someone would do so. What is the gain? It hurts the ride, looses functionality in terms of ground clearance, IMO looks like hell, makes it impossible to crawl under the rig to work on it. It makes it harder to get in and out of; one of the nice parts of pickups is that you don't have to bend down and crawl into them. I doubt that it helps the handling, heck if you want to corner, start with a sports car.

To each their own. Plenty of kids put skateboard wheels, rubber band tires and wings on their 4-cylinder rice burners too.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
25,387 posts, read 16,335,182 times
Reputation: 14123
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
And your thinking is flawed.

Your big wide tires may let you float but they do not offer you better traction and wide tires are only good for floating over soft terrain. They are not better for 99% of trail riding

Your truck only weights so much and wide tires means you have less ground pressure per square inch, this= less traction.

Logic and experience tells me this it true.

bring those wide tires out in the snow and you will get stuck try to go up a little hill . The guy with narrow tires will go right up it.
the narrow tires will cut threw the snow to the ground where the traction is.

I have used both wide and narrow tires and narrow tires work better in the real world and you get better fuel mileage and you have more control on the highway. Wide tires easily hydroplane.

I have lifted a few trucks and jeeps but only 3-6in anything more usually does not add to the vehicles off road capabilities.

12in+ lifts with 44in+ tires are just for the ego. I've run circles around thoes rigs with my jeep and 32in tires.

I guess if you think running back and forth threw a mud hole is 4 wheeling then go ahead jack it way up over 12" and run the digest tires you can find.

That truck will falter and have some big problems on the read 4X4 trails.
Like everything else 4x4, it depends on your exact conditions. In deep mud, soft sand and deep snow, wide tires, especially when run at low pressure, provide flotation to avoid getting stuck. Many 4x4 owners out here will run in feet of snow in the right conditions (snow that's settled and firm on a cold morning). Tall, skinny tires will do nothing but dig in and leave you high centered. Yet in a foot or so of snow, tall skinny tires will dig down to dirt, and often do better; particularly for driving on the roads after a snowfall. Very wide, tall tires do nothing good for you on the highway. But that's not their prime purpose.

As to tire height...go watch what some rock crawlers are capable of. Those big 40" plus tires will do amazing things with lockers, especially when aired down. Your 32s mean you have 16 inches at the axle, less say 8 inches of differential, leaving you with a mere 8 inches of ground clearance. Be darned careful where you're planting the rig, or the skid plates and sliders get a workout. In addition, when you come up against a vertical obsrtuction (big-azz rock or stairstep) you're not climing much more than half your tire diameter. Of course, with 8 inches of ground clearance...climbing a 16 inch ledge isn't a real great idea anyway.

Of course, most of the big pickups with the most lift are highly polished pavement queens, that have never had dirt on the tires. I agree...those look assine, are a pain to get in/out of, worse to load cargo into and corner like crap. They do have one advantage...you can damned near stand up under soome of them...makes oil changes pretty painless.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,511,634 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyover_Country View Post
They actually do. The people with these cars nearly always have low aspect ratio "rubber band" tires on them. Hitting a speed bump or a pothole often bends the wheel rim and causes a flat tire.
I've never had that problem with any of my lowered cars or trucks. Not in 30+ years of driving on both coasts.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
568 posts, read 1,832,323 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
It hurts the ride,
Not when it's done right.

Quote:
looses functionality in terms of ground clearance,
Ground clearance has nothing to do with functionality if the owner never plans to take it off the pavement. When done right, a lowered truck can tow and haul just as much as a stock truck, plus if you're putting a heavy load into the bed, you don't have to lift it as high. Just a small perk.

Quote:
makes it impossible to crawl under the rig to work on it.
No more impossible than crawling under a car. That's what jacks and ramps are for.

Quote:
It makes it harder to get in and out of; one of the nice parts of pickups is that you don't have to bend down and crawl into them.
You don't have to climb up to get into them.

Quote:
I doubt that it helps the handling, heck if you want to corner, start with a sports car.
Completely wrong. You'd be amazed at how well a lowly truck can be made to take corners.

Quote:
To each their own.
It's fine to have your negative opinion, but you also have a lot of misconceptions about the drive ability and utility of them.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,511,634 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Their vehicle and their choice, I just don't understand why someone would do so. What is the gain?
Style .We like the look of it.

Quote:
It hurts the ride,
Not necessarily Many of my lowered trucks have rode better after lowering. Most have not changed at all. And if you use air ride to slam a truck (or car) you gat the ability to adjust height on the fly and ride like on a cloud.


Quote:
looses functionality in terms of ground clearance,
Never needed ground clearance in my street trucks. I coudl still haul everything I wanted to haul from the lumber store, or garbage runs or carrying bikes/ATVs. Things I couldnt' do in my sedans or coupes or sports cars. And again, if you use air ride to slam a truck or car you get to adjust that ride height as you need it, up to an 8 inch variance (which can give you stock ground clearance if you really need it while still being slammed for looks when you want it. best of both worlds).


Quote:
IMO looks like hell,
I disagree, entirely.










Quote:
makes it impossible to crawl under the rig to work on it.
It's no different than working on a car at that point. And we don't find it impossible to, you know, JACK UP THE CAR, either!

Quote:
It makes it harder to get in and out of; one of the nice parts of pickups is that you don't have to bend down and crawl into them.
Actualy, with pickups, you can simply slide in when they are lowered. You don't have to crawl UP to get into them anymore. They are easier to get into that sports cars and sedans. Bigger doors and bench seats see to that.

Quote:
I doubt that it helps the handling, heck if you want to corner, start with a sports car.
It does help a little, if that's what you're trying to accomplish. But it dosn't matter as they are still more competent than you need on the street, though I've seen them on track before, too.

Quote:
To each their own..
Too bad you probably won't learn anything from a former lowered truck owner. I'm in the process of lowering our '79 Chevy stepside hot rod truck.







It's way too tall looking.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,511,634 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Personally, I would not touch a raised or lifted truck. Aside from the fact it looks stupid and hampers the performance of the vehicle, I do not wnat any vehicle with major amateur modifications. If it was massively cheaper and I could confirm it could be put back right at a minimal cost, I might consider it. It is kind of like buying a salvage title vehicle. You should get a hefty discount if you are going to take the gamble they did everything right and did not damage the vehicle in ways you cannot see.
So those professionally lowered trucks I posted are worth less than a stocker? The market does not say that. In fact, my own lowered trucks sold at a premium vs the normal stock versions.

Quote:
Generally to me lifting, lowering, funky wheels, exhaust and the like indicates an immature driver/owner.
Way to be closed minded and insulting. You're simply wrong on so many levels. Learn a little, PLEASE.
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 12,533,018 times
Reputation: 3546
Sorry, toyman you can't pull that wool over this old 4x4er eyes.
in snow big wide fat tires are the worst.
and for most big wide tires are nothing but a
ego fix. and rock climbers have big egos.
I've 4x4 in the canyon-lands to mountains to swamps..
tall narrow is better that wide.

tall and narrow will not leave you high centered .
High centering has more to do with the drivers inability than the tires.


I'm been playing in the snow all my life.
What happens with the big wide tires is they plow snow.
and as they do snow builds up in front of the tire like a pressure wake in front of a boat. This builds up and can stop all forward progress. Them the tire spins creating a patch of compressed snow thet melts and refreezes truing to ice and your stuck
Taller is better. In the deep snow progress is generally halted when you start pushing too much snow. Taller tires mean you'll push less snow.

Narrower tires, better for snow, sink deeper because of their different proportions of length and width of the contact patch's shape. The edges of the patch along the sidewall lead to an almost vertical wall that lets the tire sink into snow; the front and rear edges of the patch at the tread lead to a very gradual slope, following the curvature of the tire, that buoys the tire. A narrow tire's contact patch is long and narrow, maximizing steep and minimizing sloping edges. This minimizes flotation and the tire sinks into the hard packed snow underneath where the tread's lugs can get a bite. In contrast, a low profile tire's contact patch is short and wide, minimizing the steep and maximizing the gently sloping edges. This increases flotation and the tire's tread stays in the loose upper layers of snow.

According to "Motor Trend," wide tires almost float on deep snow, while narrow tires dig through the snow and provide far better traction. To borrow Motor Trend's analogy, the difference is like applying pressure to a cube of butter with the flat side verses the sharp side of a knife.

Myth: Wide tires provide better traction under all weather conditions. In fact, putting oversize snow tires on a car delivers better snow traction.
Fact: The opposite is actually true. Wide tires tend to "float" on deep snow, and the tread lugs never have a chance to "dig" through to the road surface to gain traction. Narrow tires are a better option in deep snow. The tire acts similarly to a knife cutting through butter; the blade works best when using the narrow edge to push through the butter rather than the wide flat side of the blade.
Read more: Tire Myths...and Reality - Car Care - Motor Trend



even farm tractors do better with narrow tires vs wide ones.
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...ires%20snow%22


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Like everything else 4x4, it depends on your exact conditions. In deep mud, soft sand and deep snow, wide tires, especially when run at low pressure, provide flotation to avoid getting stuck. Many 4x4 owners out here will run in feet of snow in the right conditions (snow that's settled and firm on a cold morning). Tall, skinny tires will do nothing but dig in and leave you high centered. Yet in a foot or so of snow, tall skinny tires will dig down to dirt, and often do better; particularly for driving on the roads after a snowfall. Very wide, tall tires do nothing good for you on the highway. But that's not their prime purpose.

As to tire height...go watch what some rock crawlers are capable of. Those big 40" plus tires will do amazing things with lockers, especially when aired down. Your 32s mean you have 16 inches at the axle, less say 8 inches of differential, leaving you with a mere 8 inches of ground clearance. Be darned careful where you're planting the rig, or the skid plates and sliders get a workout. In addition, when you come up against a vertical obsrtuction (big-azz rock or stairstep) you're not climing much more than half your tire diameter. Of course, with 8 inches of ground clearance...climbing a 16 inch ledge isn't a real great idea anyway.

Of course, most of the big pickups with the most lift are highly polished pavement queens, that have never had dirt on the tires. I agree...those look assine, are a pain to get in/out of, worse to load cargo into and corner like crap. They do have one advantage...you can damned near stand up under soome of them...makes oil changes pretty painless.
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,634,310 times
Reputation: 24548
I watched a lifted pickup on wide tires try to navigate a snow covered parking lot (back when we has snow) and it was going eveywhere but straight. It may have been an inexperienced driver but it looked like it had about as much traction and control as fat in a frying pan.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:17 AM
 
8,317 posts, read 25,134,776 times
Reputation: 9066
The only place that a "radical" lift--over 3"-4" lift--makes sense in a 4WD is for use in swamp country, where high center-of-gravity is not an issue, and where maximum ground clearance and large high-flotation tires are a necessity. Anyplace else, it's just plain stupid. Many stock 4WD's today need a small to moderate suspension lift--2"-4"--in order to have adequate ground clearance for even moderate backcountry use. Even in that situation, the lift must be well engineered.

I also agree with snofarmer--under nearly all off-road conditions, narrower treaded tires perform better. The key is getting tire wide enough to handle adequately on the highway and narrow enough to perform well off-road. I used to love the old 9.00Rx16 truck radials, but they are almost impossible to find now, plus most newer 4WD's have gone to 17" wheels.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,372 posts, read 25,631,473 times
Reputation: 19655
I love a nice looking lowered truck. Had a 76 GMC Short bed that was lowered 6" all around. That truck just had the right look to it at that angle. I called it the 6 pack. Had a 6" drop, had a 292 Inline 6 with a Clifford setup for that engine. My next step was to find a 6 speed that I could mount to it. Ended up selling it before I completed what I wanted to do to it. We had some great times together though. I personally don't like the jobs where they lower the body so far that the bed is changed so that the axle can fit under it. If you have never seen that, the bed is cut so that the axle can fit under the bed. Many times they leave the hardware visible. At the end of the day I still want it to look like a truck with a flat bed, or one that has been upgraded with a wood bed, even if that truck had a steel bed. LOL

The thing is if the truck is stock, lowered, or raised it is all personal preference. I doubt that you will ever find a time that the builder in me isn't going to want to make some changes to anything that I drive. Many people are like that. Not everyone has to like it. Still even Ford, GM, Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan have versions of their trucks where at least a mild job can be found in either direction.
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