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Old 03-25-2011, 11:50 AM
 
Location: un peu près de Chicago
773 posts, read 2,008,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
And seriously, how can Amricanls NOT be "ignorant" about diesels?
We simply got big trucks, ...
Americans wanted big trucks (and big SUVs) and still do. GM and Ford gave it to them (and still do) and got rich in the process. GM and Ford are not forcing Americans to buy big trucks and SUVs with gasoline engines. They are making what Americans want.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,047,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
It doesn't compute.

400 NM (295 lb-ft) @ 6000 rpm ≈ 340 hp
While "all the way to 6200 rpm" would be an exaggeration, modern turbo diesels do have a fat torque curve at low rpm (and through what would mid-range for a typical gasoline engine). Consequently, they make more of their peak power, longer.

For example, VW's 2.0-liter TDI is rated 140 HP @ 4200 rpm, 236 lb-ft @ 1750-2500 rpm (as used in Audi A3). So, this engine is making 80% of its peak power at just 2500 rpm. On the other side, you would need a pretty good 3.5-liter (or larger) gasoline V6 to deliver that kind of power at 2500 rpm. But, diesel would win easily in mileage department.

Having said that, I don't support diesel for its horsepower prowess at low rpm but the promise of bio-diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
Americans wanted big trucks (and big SUVs) and still do. GM and Ford gave it to them (and still do) and got rich in the process. GM and Ford are not forcing Americans to buy big trucks and SUVs with gasoline engines. They are making what Americans want.
IMO, they made Americans learn what they should want. And cheap oil helped. Things changed a few years ago, when reality began to sink in. Notice how quickly the "toy-like CUVs" of the early 2000s have become the accepted kind.
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,777 posts, read 24,047,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
I'm just curious about this now that gas prices are getting quite high. I know there are many cars available in Europe that are not available here with smaller, lower powered diesel engines that get fantastic gas mileage. Supposedly they were not made available here because they figured the American public would not be interested due to the low horsepower. My question is- do any of you think this will change with the higher priced gas? Will we start seeing these cars with small, 60MPG diesel engines being made available here in the States?
Yes. I see that as being inevitable. SUVs became a norm in the 1990s and automakers pushed for them, people bought the idea. In fact, many felt more “manly” to drive a truck, and truck based SUVs and many women felt “empowered” to surround themselves with such. They also snickered at unibody (car architecture based) SUVs like CR-V and RAV4. A little over a decade later, the unibody SUVs were leading the market and now “SUV” is somehow unfashionable but “CUV” is. This has to do with getting somewhat in touch with the reality, that oil prices are bound to rise.


Diesels have gained popularity, and will do so over the next decade for sure. Personally, I don’t see much point in complaining about “not enough power” (may have something to do with rising obesity in America, but that can be discussed elsewhere). My powerful BMW doesn’t go faster than the traffic, I don’t get to drive it at half its potential, neither did the 2006 Acura TL I had before it, and the “only 150 HP” 1998 Accord never disappointed before that. In fact, I average about 40 mph driving to work (mostly freeway), and about 30 mph on the way back home.
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Old 03-25-2011, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Pomona
1,955 posts, read 9,222,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
In fact, I average about 40 mph driving to work (mostly freeway), and about 30 mph on the way back home.
If only my commute averaged that fast.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,680 posts, read 4,471,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabronie View Post
No we do not. There is a slew of cars that get 50-80 mpg that is just not offered here. There is one VW's that gets something like 80mpg, 120hp, and under $20k. They had it on Top Gear, was pretty awesome. I think that would sell here; IIRC it was in the Rabit hatch body, looked pretty good all things considered.

I drive a 15 year old, 1995 Acura Integra. I get just over 40mpg on the expressway, and about 33mpg in the city. It's still better then alot of the 'hybrid/econo' cars today. 140hp and turns pretty good, I dare say it would outperform alot of modern 'econo' cars in most all aspects. I really don't understand how things have stayed the way they are for so long.
Yes, those are what I'm talking about! Normal cars- not toys like the Smart car- that get over 50MPG. I would seriously hope as our gas prices continue to go up that those are made available here- I'd buy one if they were under $20K! Sure diesel is more expensive, but when you get double the gas mileage of most of the cars available here, it's still a winner.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,658,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
I'll believe 380 N-m torque @ 6200 rpm in a car engine only if you show me a link.
A quick Wikipedia search will tell you that the 2010 320d produces 181hp and 380NM torque.

I might have phrased myself wrong in saying it keeps peak torque all the way to 6250rpm, what I meant was that it keeps in the power band (there's no notable drop in power pulling all the way to the red line), I suspect the HP is doing some of the high rpm work.

That said, the powerband in this BMW diesel is absolutely astonishing, the fact that you got so much torque so low down in the range, and through so much of it, means passing at highwayspeeds, even in 5th and 6th is a breeze.

I would strongly suggest trying one if you're ever in Europe. It blew my mind away.
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Old 03-25-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,680 posts, read 4,471,268 times
Reputation: 3622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabronie View Post
No we do not. There is a slew of cars that get 50-80 mpg that is just not offered here. There is one VW's that gets something like 80mpg, 120hp, and under $20k. They had it on Top Gear, was pretty awesome. I think that would sell here; IIRC it was in the Rabit hatch body, looked pretty good all things considered.

I drive a 15 year old, 1995 Acura Integra. I get just over 40mpg on the expressway, and about 33mpg in the city. It's still better then alot of the 'hybrid/econo' cars today. 140hp and turns pretty good, I dare say it would outperform alot of modern 'econo' cars in most all aspects. I really don't understand how things have stayed the way they are for so long.
To add to this, back in the early 90's I had a basic little hatch back Dodge Colt- which was just a rebranded Mitsubishi. It got just over 40 MPG on the highway, had just under 100 HP I believe, but was still peppy enough to get me around in traffic and on the highways. It boggles my mind that cars like this don't still exist, but yet with even better mileage given the advancement in technology that you'd think would allow for such.
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Old 03-25-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Pomona
1,955 posts, read 9,222,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
To add to this, back in the early 90's I had a basic little hatch back Dodge Colt- which was just a rebranded Mitsubishi. It got just over 40 MPG on the highway, had just under 100 HP I believe, but was still peppy enough to get me around in traffic and on the highways. It boggles my mind that cars like this don't still exist, but yet with even better mileage given the advancement in technology that you'd think would allow for such.
Folks wanted bigger cars with more features, which means more weight, and more power. The manufacturers are only making what the consumers would buy.
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:08 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,210,251 times
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Besides which Doesel vehiles stink when you get behind one;even the luxury vehicles.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:12 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,894 posts, read 37,602,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Besides which Doesel vehiles stink when you get behind one;even the luxury vehicles.
No stink with Bio-diesel (maybe a bit of french fry / fish&chips). Even a small 20% blend of BD reduces Diesel emissions by 80%.
The dyno sniffers at the emission stations don't even register particulate / opacity when testing with Bio-D.

TX needs a Renewable Fuel Standard, but probably unlikely in that OIL state.
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