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Old 08-12-2011, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,151 posts, read 26,611,024 times
Reputation: 6441

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I'll agree to admit that they're fun for you to drive if you'll admit that other's just. don't. agree. Really, how hard is that? I don't begrudge your preference. I would appreciate the same courtesy.
Yes, others claim that cars with automatics are not fun to drive but that doesn't mean they are right. They say it like it's a fact and it's actually their opinion. Don't you realize that when you read their posts?

I never said I don't like cars with manual transmissions. If you read one of my posts above, one of my top 10 favorite cars is one with a manual transmission. Is that so hard to understand?
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,171 posts, read 27,428,664 times
Reputation: 11838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
What I'm saying is that just because something needs to be serviced at certain miles doesn't make it less desirable. Also, a transmission flush is much easier and less expensive than replacing a timing belt. So, going by what you said, all cars with timing belts should be avoided!
But see, long ago other posters mentioned some of the things that make manual transmissions undesirable. There were different things posted. So, indicating something that I find undesirable or costly on automatic transmissions was my response to other posters.

In relation to timing belts, it has nothing to do with transmission fluids. And manual transmissions also have fluids, except that these seldom have to be replaced. For example, on my Civic Si with 257K miles, I have never had to replace the transmission fluid, which is 10W-40 motor oil. My Sidekick with 152K miles the regular oil was replaced with synthetic oil for extreme weather driving in Alaska. The '87 F-150 truck I have, with perhaps over 300K miles has never had the manual transmission fluid replaced. My wife's Rav 4 V6 with an automatic transmission requires the fluid be replaced around 30K miles, and so the timing belt (just like the rest of automobiles we have).

And yes, replacing the ATF is a lot more difficult than replacing the oil in a manual transmission.

Last edited by RayinAK; 08-12-2011 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,797,403 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Yes, others claim that cars with automatics are not fun to drive but that doesn't mean they are right. They say it like it's a fact and it's actually their opinion. Don't you realize that when you read their posts?
I don't struggle as much as you do to recognize an implicit yet obvious opinion. I don't need to have every opinion explicitly qualified as an opinion to recognize it's an opinion. Evidently you do, and as a result we get to watch you argue endlessly in every thread where the topic is brought up. It gets really, really old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
I never said I don't like cars with manual transmissions. If you read one of my posts above, one of my top 10 favorite cars is one with a manual transmission. Is that so hard to understand?
Nothing I said implies that you don't like cars with a manual transmission, so no, it's not so hard to understand. But thanks for asking.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,171 posts, read 27,428,664 times
Reputation: 11838
By the way, while in the US automatic transmissions are more popular than manual ones, there are plenty of automobiles with manual transmissions for those of us who want such (I like both, but manual is my favorite of the two):
Manual Transmission Vehicles: The Ultimate List - Motor Trend
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,797,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
By the way, while in the US automatic transmissions are more popular than manual ones, there are plenty of automobiles with manual transmissions for those of us who want such (I like both, but manual is my favorite of the two):
Manual Transmission Vehicles: The Ultimate List - Motor Trend
"Plenty" is relative. Every year it sesms like there are more and more cars where a manual isn't even offered any more, which is a shame.
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Old 08-12-2011, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Duluth, Minnesota, USA
7,653 posts, read 14,751,095 times
Reputation: 6644
Again, I stand by my conviction that Americans drive automatics because they can afford them. In other countries, even developed nations, incomes tend to be lower, income taxes tend to be higher, and often car ownership is penalized with a number of taxes (fuel, import duties, green taxes, etc.) People buy what they can afford (or they think they can afford), and for Americans that tends to be a medium-sized car, SUV, or truck with automatic transmission, and for most others it is usually a smallish car with manual transmission. Many of the things Americans have taken for granted in cars for decades - things like air conditioning, cruise control, power windows - are still luxuries elsewhere or have recently become standard in vehicles. The United States is truly the land of milk and honey when it comes to driving.

Also, most Americans drive to almost every destination. Urban and suburban Americans spend a lot of time in traffic congestion. When you drive that much, a clutch becomes fatiguing, especially in traffic.

I've never driven a standard (car), but I have rode in them many times, and something I have noticed is some drivers (if not most drivers) never really master shifting. Riding in a standard car becomes like riding in an automatic with something wrong with the transmission.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,797,403 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Again, I stand by my conviction that Americans drive automatics because they can afford them . . .
I don't think this is a factor any more. Any more, the cost difference between a manual and an automatic is insignificant, particularly as relates to the overall price of a car. But you're not totally off the mark. Yes there was a time when an automatic transmission was considerably more expensive and was a sign of affluence; and yes there was a time when Americans had a lot more discretionary income to burn than folks in other erstwhile industrialized nations that were still recovering from the economic destruction wrought by the war. So the ubiquity of automatic transmissions in the U.S. versus Europe is perhaps more of an historic artifact than a reflection of greater affluence today. Factor in that automatics are only now starting to achieve parity in fuel economy with manuals and it's understandable that manuals are much more common in countries where they tax the holy hell out of fuel.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,151 posts, read 26,611,024 times
Reputation: 6441
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
But see, long ago other posters mentioned some of the things that make manual transmissions undesirable. There were different things posted. So, indicating something that I find undesirable or costly on automatic transmissions was my response to other posters.
Both of them (manuals and automatics) have their advantages and disadvantages.

Quote:
In relation to timing belts, it has nothing to do with transmission fluids.
Yes, it does. In some cars, both need changing when a certain mileage is achieved.


Quote:
And manual transmissions also have fluids, except that these seldom have to be replaced. For example, on my Civic Si with 257K miles, I have never had to replace the transmission fluid, which is 10W-40 motor oil. My Sidekick with 152K miles the regular oil was replaced with synthetic oil for extreme weather driving in Alaska. The '87 F-150 truck I have, with perhaps over 300K miles has never had the manual transmission fluid replaced. My wife's Rav 4 V6 with an automatic transmission requires the fluid be replaced around 30K miles, and so the timing belt (just like the rest of automobiles we have).

And yes, replacing the ATF is a lot more difficult than replacing the oil in a manual transmission.
As mentioned before, the 1960s (and into the '70s) Mopars with automatic transmission had fluid which lasted the life of the car under normal conditions.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Oslo, NO
5,037 posts, read 5,516,954 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
Again, I stand by my conviction that Americans drive automatics because they can afford them. In other countries, even developed nations, incomes tend to be lower, income taxes tend to be higher, and often car ownership is penalized with a number of taxes (fuel, import duties, green taxes, etc.)
Do not forget the low prices compared to Europe. In Europe we must pay extra for an automatic. In America an automatic comes as standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvdxer View Post
People buy what they can afford (or they think they can afford), and for Americans that tends to be a medium-sized car, SUV, or truck with automatic transmission, and for most others it is usually a smallish car with manual transmission. Many of the things Americans have taken for granted in cars for decades - things like air conditioning, cruise control, power windows - are still luxuries elsewhere or have recently become standard in vehicles. The United States is truly the land of milk and honey when it comes to driving.
A/C and power windows have been standard on most cars for at least a decade.

Germany is the best land for driving enthusiasts. There are no legitimate equivalents to the Autobahn or the Nürburgring Nordschleife in the U.S.
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,691 posts, read 86,797,403 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmptrwlt View Post
Germany is the best land for driving enthusiasts. There are no legitimate equivalents to the Autobahn or the Nürburgring Nordschleife in the U.S.
I like Richard Hammond's response to the perpetual prospect of Germany imposing speed limits system-wide on the autobahn: "Well then, why have Germany? What's it there for??"
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