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Old 04-07-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
1,024 posts, read 1,996,022 times
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Why a stick? More control (yes, automatics can be shifted manually, but what does that mean for the longterm reliability of shiftable automatics?). Manuals are lighter and much less complicated. I think manuals are more fun and, much like the control, it makes driving more engaging. Driving stick is an art, and it takes finesse.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,919,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Griff View Post
Why a stick? More control (yes, automatics can be shifted manually, but what does that mean for the longterm reliability of shiftable automatics?).
Nothing. Serious. Shifting is shifting to the gearbox whether your moving the lever or it is choosing for itself. Again, I shift my BMW manually atwhen I feel like it and it's at 185k on it's original trans and fluid. I'll repeat it until it sinks in.

Quote:
Manuals are lighter and much less complicated.
Yes, so are hand cranks for starting and pushrod engines. Cars are complex machines and are fairly heavy. 25 lbs isn't going to change it much and a tiny bit of complexity in the trans isnt' an issue for longetivity anymore.

Quote:
Driving stick is an art, and it takes finesse.
And yet people here say they don't mind driving a stick because it's second nature, they don't have to think about it and its not that hard.

So which is it? Easy enough that it's second nature that you don't think about and do from muscle memory? Or a finesse art form that requires thought and skill and you need to think about every time you do it on a commute?

Can't have it both ways.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,410 posts, read 52,413,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outafocus View Post
Better power, better MPG, MUCH more reliable and durable than an automatic.
Not true anymore, not true anymore, and debatable.

Btw, I love driving stick and one of my sports cars is a stick, but let's be honest. We do it for the fun.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Austin Texas
474 posts, read 760,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63 View Post
So which is it? Easy enough that it's second nature that you don't think about and do from muscle memory? Or a finesse art form that requires thought and skill and you need to think about every time you do it on a commute?

Can't have it both ways.
Sure you can. It can be second nature when you are rowing the gears on your commute to work. It can be finesse when you want a double downshift because YOU know the turn coming up is sharp and needs that gear. The auto (unless you have a GTR or Ferrari with 50 msec shifting) won't downshift that fast nor allow you to spool up the rpms you want. Manually shifting an auto is nowhere near the same thing unless you have one of the new advanced autos.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,919,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
Now you're the one making assertions, that you love pointing out to much.
ahh, I'm just countering BS with BS to see if you guys get pissed when it happens to YOU.

Seriouysly, yore using a easily refuted subjective "fact" as an assertion of overall fact, so I'm going to do it right back until you stop.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,919,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
1 miilion chimps typing for 1 million years= works of Shakespere
1 billion chimps typing for 1000 years=works of Shakespere
1 trillion chimps typing for 1 YEAR = works of Shakespere
Thanks to this forum, we've proven that to be impossible.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,410 posts, read 52,413,699 times
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One billion chimps on CDF can't even manage to spell Shakespeare correctly.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 11,919,669 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazznblues View Post
Sure you can. It can be second nature when you are rowing the gears on your commute to work. It can be finesse when you want a double downshift because YOU know the turn coming up is sharp and needs that gear.
And seriously, unless you are stil in the "look at me I shifted. Oh, look, I did it AGAIN!" phase, how often is that in a day to day world, really? After 30 years of performance driving, I've noticed doing that maybe once or twice a YEAR in my manual sports cars, and pretty much never in a manual trans commuter.

And yet I'm still putting a 5 speed manual transmission in my '63 Comet that had an automatic in it, behind an engine that was never avaialble from the factory with a manual (the Lexus LS400 1UZE V8).

Quote:
The auto (unless you have a GTR or Ferrari with 50 msec shifting) won't downshift that fast nor allow you to spool up the rpms you want. Manually shifting an auto is nowhere near the same thing unless you have one of the new advanced autos.
Actully, I have experience with the cars I posted on the track and on the commute and can say that you're not correct.

My BMW downshifts as fast as manually as if I was downshifting my Fiat or MGB with a stick. You have to remember that 99.9999 percent of the time, your own manual shifts are relatively slow, taking upwards of a full second from initiating the shift to completion, even shifting fast on the track. I've done the back to back comparisons when building automatics for track use (not modern manumatics, but older AODs, C4s, C6s, TH350s and TH400s and 4l60e's) the automtics can shift quite a bit faster than you can manually. And you make power DURING the shift as you don't have to let off the throttle (especially good for turbo cars).

Even my BMW in sport mod with it's old transmission can shift faster than a manual and do so when I want it, WHEN I move the lever. And that's a 12 year old car with 185k on it. My Mazda with the Ford AOD was faster yet.

There's nothing wrong with preferring a good manual transmission. I do. But there's everything wrong for enthusiasts to know as little about automatics as is evidenced here, because their experience and exposure to them is so limited in scope. An automatic minivan or a luxury tuned buick/Honda/toyota, or a basic rental car, or ANY automati equipped 4 cyl non-turbo car, is not going to give you an idea of what a decent automatic is capable of, as drag racers have known for decades. TRY a big block Chevelle with a built B&M TH400, or a Fox Mustang 5.0 with an Art Carr AOD. Or a '99-01 BMW E38 Sport with the Steptronic. "It is NOT your father's oldsmobile..."
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Austin Texas
474 posts, read 760,318 times
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Merc63 - I think you are getting away from the spirit of this thread.

Take a car like an Accord - available with a manual or auto. Same engine. Drive and forget with the auto. The Honda manual is nice - and changes the car's benign character enough to be worthwhile. For me.

I haven't found an auto yet in a mainstream car that doesn't hesitate then jerk a bit on a manual downshift.

As for needing the downshift I described just a few times a year - OK. But who needs most of a car's potential but a few times a year. How many 911s are just driven to work because their owners like the status?

I also like knobs for volume and tuning on radios.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,309 posts, read 59,604,127 times
Reputation: 53816
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryleeII View Post
I understand they're better on gas, also, you have better road control
Works for me! More fun to drive. Cheaper repairs, too -- although I've never had a manual shift that had to be repaired. Not so with the one automatic I've owned.

I prefer not to have gadgets that take away from the experience of driving. My 2006 Mazda 3 is the first car I've had with power steering. And I hate it!
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