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Old 04-18-2011, 10:00 AM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,776 posts, read 14,142,640 times
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OP is totally out to lunch.

The vast majority of American made trucks are work trucks, many not owner driven so they really get abused by people who don't have to pay to fix them.

Most of the foreign made trucks (light duty pickups)are owned by homeowners who also own foreign cars and believe because it is not American made it is better.

A garage kept foreign pickup (private owner) is certainly going to last longer than an American truck which spends most of it's time hauling crap on/off road and only gets washed once a year and it's oil change when they think about it.

American trucks are work trucks, Japanese trucks are toys.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:12 AM
 
575 posts, read 800,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria2388 View Post
I've noticed a strange thing that hopefully some of you can delineate for me.

My father owns a garage and has for many years. There is no debate amongst those in his shop: generally, Japanese vehicles are superior to American vehicles in every way. American trucks in particular have been my father's bread and butter for decades. Always problems, always in the shops. Nine out of ten vehicles we see that are less than five years old requiring significant repairs are American trucks, and it's been this way for twenty years. Consider that foreign vehicles are popular in my area as well. It seems like this view is relatively uncontroversial knowledge in most automotive circles.


So why, I wonder, is it my experience that the American truck enjoys a kind of alpha male, "durability," "get rr dunn" crowd type of label? A truck in general makes sense, given it's obvious utility. But why American trucks, which are widely known to have terrible reputations across-the-board? Is it just a nationalism thing?
American car companies sell to men based on emotions. Look at any truck commercial, which has been American car companies bread and butter for years and see all the alpha male innuendo's in these commercials. Many people who own trucks have no need for them other then as a status symbol. I personally would not buy a pickup unless I had a need for it, but my opinion seems to be the unusual opinion as most guys I know who own pickups don't need them for their job or other activities.

American cars and trucks have been poorly built for years.

I am also of the opinion that once foreign companies start building their vehicles here that the quality goes downhill quickly.

If I were buying a new car, I'd want to make sure it was built overseas.

Sadly we have lost any edge we may have had in building cars and trucks many years ago.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 24,618,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
OP is totally out to lunch.

The vast majority of American made trucks are work trucks, many not owner driven so they really get abused by people who don't have to pay to fix them.

Most of the foreign made trucks (light duty pickups)are owned by homeowners who also own foreign cars and believe because it is not American made it is better.

A garage kept foreign pickup (private owner) is certainly going to last longer than an American truck which spends most of it's time hauling crap on/off road and only gets washed once a year and it's oil change when they think about it.

American trucks are work trucks, Japanese trucks are toys.
So many generalizations! There are many "gentlemen's trucks" in Texas that never haul a thing. They are toys to their owner, no matter what the brand. Why do you think Ford introduced Lariat trims?

I'm not disputing that Ford or Chevy or Dodge make the majority of pickups used for "work." But a modern Tundra is stout vehicle and I seem them widely used in Texas hauling landscaper's trailers, many boats, etc.

The Tacoma absolutely blows the S10, Colorado, or Ranger away in every way. The biggest knock on the Tacoma is its price. Used it is crazy expensive.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Earth
1,480 posts, read 4,367,402 times
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Correlation does not equal causation. That is, if more American trucks appear in the shop for repairs, it may not necessarily be because they're not well made. It could be that more "American made" trucks are produced and put on the road. The F-150 is the top-selling full sized pick-up. If, hypothetically, 5 American trucks are sold for every one foreign truck (a reasonable guess, I think) then it becomes statistically probable that you will see more American trucks in the shop for repairs - about 5 times as many with all else equal.

It could also be that people who buy American trucks use them harder. Go find a contractor who hauls loads of building materials and tows equipment on a regular basis and ask him what kind of truck he has. I bet he's more than 5 times as likely to tell you it's a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. Meanwhile, the guy with the Tundra is using it to commute to work and tow his bass boat or camper on the occasional weekend.

I'll agree that American small and midsized trucks went to crap. If I wanted a truck with a V6 I'd get a Tacoma. But if I were out to buy a full sized truck it would be a Dodge Ram. It's the one segment that the Detroit 3 kept their focus when they should have also been making better cars.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,786,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
The F150 is not the top selling vehicle worldwide. The Toyota Corolla is the reigning world champ, and has been for a long time.

Maybe overall but I am talking about modern times.. F150 is.. The last 5 years..
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:24 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 17,786,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnytang24 View Post
I think in terms of trucks, the Toyota Hilux is the #1 selling vehicle. I've never seen an F150 in Asia or Europe, but I have seen tons of Hilux's. I hear the Hilux is #1 best selling vehicle (even surpassing the Corolla) in many countries in Africa.

I'd also wager the Isuzu N series trucks to be more popular heavy duty trucks worldwide than the F series.
nope. Wrong..


Top 20 Best-Selling Vehicles of 2009 — Autoblog
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:06 AM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,507,040 times
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FWIW, frank is right, since 2008 the Ford F-series (not just the F150, all the F-series combined) are the number 1 selling vehicle on Earth. They took the crown from the Corolla. For all time, the Corolla is still number one and the F-series is number 2.

Here is the all time world selling list:

http://carbuyinghowto.com/100-best-selling-cars-1/
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:10 AM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,507,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
3) Anytime you launch a new production line or product there are bugs to work out. The Tundra engine as one example has significant known issues which they eventually sorted out around 2005.

2000 Toyota Tundra Base 3.4L V6 5-speed Manual Reliability

In fairness, here is the ford ranger from around that time and until 2004 or so I'd have to give the ranger the edge.
2004 Ford Ranger XL 2.3L 4-cyl. 5-speed Manual 0.5 ft. Bed Reliability
...and then reintroduced when they launched the new Tundra in 2007. Check out the cam recall on the 2007 Tundra's as well as the multiple issues with the 4WD system. Toyota even apologized for the 2007 Tundra...no report on whether or not the engineers had to commit Seppuku (aka Hara-kiri).
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:21 AM
 
42 posts, read 102,385 times
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I agree that correlation does not equal causation. To be honest, I did not expect this much descent. I don't know cars, so I don't speak authoritatively about this. I had just assumed, talking to my father and his pals (who are known to be nationalistic and have every reason to be biased in favor of american trucks) it's almost universally accepted that American trucks are crap compared to foreign.

Some good points brought up that American companies are generally the only show in town when you need to haul a huge load. The only thing I will say is that this notion that most foreign truck owners are software dorks whereas American F150 owners put their trucks through hell, thus the disparity in stuff going wrong (and I do believe there is one), is an obvious falsehood. I feel no need to elaborate. There are just as many show-truck F150 owners as there are Ridgeline, et al.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:35 AM
 
48,897 posts, read 39,392,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebri View Post
American car companies sell to men based on emotions. Look at any truck commercial, which has been American car companies bread and butter for years and see all the alpha male innuendo's in these commercials. Many people who own trucks have no need for them other then as a status symbol. I personally would not buy a pickup unless I had a need for it, but my opinion seems to be the unusual opinion as most guys I know who own pickups don't need them for their job or other activities.

American cars and trucks have been poorly built for years.

I am also of the opinion that once foreign companies start building their vehicles here that the quality goes downhill quickly.

If I were buying a new car, I'd want to make sure it was built overseas.

Sadly we have lost any edge we may have had in building cars and trucks many years ago.
Yes, let's leave emotion out of it. Here are the current stats.

Warranty Claims Rate as a percentage of product revenue.....2010.
Honda - 1%
Ford - 1.8%
Toyota - 1.9%
GM - 2.6%
Chysler - 3.1%

Toyota has slid in recent years, all of the domestics have gotten better as has Honda. (Source: Warranty Week)

Everyone here can handwave, flame-war and posture as much as they want, these are reality.
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