american trucks: mostly junk, right? So what is the following rooted in? (van, camper)
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I've noticed a strange thing that hopefully some of you can delineate for me.
My father owns a garage and has for many years. There is no debate amongst those in his shop: generally, Japanese vehicles are superior to American vehicles in every way. American trucks in particular have been my father's bread and butter for decades. Always problems, always in the shops. Nine out of ten vehicles we see that are less than five years old requiring significant repairs are American trucks, and it's been this way for twenty years. Consider that foreign vehicles are popular in my area as well. It seems like this view is relatively uncontroversial knowledge in most automotive circles.
So why, I wonder, is it my experience that the American truck enjoys a kind of alpha male, "durability," "get rr dunn" crowd type of label? A truck in general makes sense, given it's obvious utility. But why American trucks, which are widely known to have terrible reputations across-the-board? Is it just a nationalism thing?
total rubbish in this post. my old F250 6.9 diesel had been owned by a commercial company that beat the tar out of the truck. it was sold to another commercial company that also beat the tar out of the truck.
by the time i got it, it had 170,000 miles on it, the bed was practically garbage, but it still got 22 mpg, and ran like a top. and i beat the tar out of it while i owned it with few maintenance issues, a bad alternator, a bad starter, and bad oil cooler "O" rings. it also tended to eat up glow plugs every six months. other than that it still ran like a top when i sold it.
a friend of mine has a 72 chevy 3/4 ton pick up that also runs like a top despite being mistreated its entire life. it also has a ton of miles on it.
my next door neighbor owned a 62 chevy 1/2 ton that ran great for many years. the only reason they sold it was because the father died.
the only truck that i have ever known to have any issues was my brothers 97 dodge, and it was also beat to heck. it was traded in for a 07 camery for two reasons, the first was a blown head gasket, the second is that my brother was tired of the truck.
when i worked for the city of tucson they had a large variety of trucks as early as 1959, and with the exception of a couple of truly beat to crap international scouts, they were ALL good trucks.
Another thing to add to this is I turned 16 in 1996 but started driving long driving before that and have mostly driven 1970s built Ford pickups and have driven many long trips with these and have never had a unexpected breakdown at all yet. I have driven several hundred thousand miles on trucks that were already a few decades old and had high miles to begin with and only paid at most 2,500 dollars to buy it so can't beat that, at least to me anyway.
The late 60's and 70's Fords could be very good--or terrible. The absolute worst truck that I ever drove was a 1971 Ford 4x4. Total junk and worn out before 60,000 miles--despite rigorous maintenance. A friend had a '67 that was nearly identical that went for over 250,000 miles before he sold it--luck of the draw. The Fords from 1973 to 1979 were even more fickle. I switched to GM trucks after a lousy experience with a 1973 1-ton Ford. That damned truck burned up--literally--from a defective fuel system, at less than 20,000 miles. The Chevy's had fickle reliability, too, but not like the Fords did. I hold no nostalgia for 1970's era American vehicles. For the most part, they were gas-guzzling, unreliable pigs--strangled by cumbersome and inefficient emission controls after 1972. The only thing positive that I can say about those 1970's-era trucks is that at least the 4WD's still had solid front axles and locking hubs (except for the POS's that had full-time 4WD--another horror story in some 1970's era 4WD's), unlike many of the 4WD's today.
The late 60's and 70's Fords could be very good--or terrible. The absolute worst truck that I ever drove was a 1971 Ford 4x4. Total junk and worn out before 60,000 miles--despite rigorous maintenance. A friend had a '67 that was nearly identical that went for over 250,000 miles before he sold it--luck of the draw. The Fords from 1973 to 1979 were even more fickle. I switched to GM trucks after a lousy experience with a 1973 1-ton Ford. That damned truck burned up--literally--from a defective fuel system, at less than 20,000 miles. The Chevy's had fickle reliability, too, but not like the Fords did. I hold no nostalgia for 1970's era American vehicles. For the most part, they were gas-guzzling, unreliable pigs--strangled by cumbersome and inefficient emission controls after 1972. The only thing positive that I can say about those 1970's-era trucks is that at least the 4WD's still had solid front axles and locking hubs (except for the POS's that had full-time 4WD--another horror story in some 1970's era 4WD's), unlike many of the 4WD's today.
Oh no but keep in mind that these older vehicles are best suited to those of us that maintain them ourselves. I can assure you that a 1967 thru 1979 Ford f series pickup is the strongest by far when it comes to pure brute strength. The pickups they make today cannot hold a candle to these as far as the strength of the frame and body and drivetrain and abuse goes. I like the GM pickups from the 60s and 70s but their frames are much weaker.
Oh no but keep in mind that these older vehicles are best suited to those of us that maintain them ourselves. I can assure you that a 1967 thru 1979 Ford f series pickup is the strongest by far when it comes to pure brute strength. The pickups they make today cannot hold a candle to these as far as the strength of the frame and body and drivetrain and abuse goes. I like the GM pickups from the 60s and 70s but their frames are much weaker.
I have to disagree. A lot of the 1970's era trucks had C-channel frames that would flex like hell in off-camber situations. Many of the newer trucks now have full-boxed frames that are strong and rigid. The earlier trucks (1950's-1960's) had very beefy frames, but had the weight that went with it. For absolute tough, the 1946-1968 (1971 for export models) one-ton civilian Dodge Power Wagon was an absolute tank. Of course, its flathead 6-cylinder engine was good for about 55 mph maximum flat-out and they got about 8-10 mpg on a good day, the steering wheel could break your thumbs if you hit a rock with the front wheel, and you had to have linebacker's calves to use the brakes--but there has never been a tougher 4WD pickup built since.
I always thought that if Dodge would build this truck with modern brakes, steering, transmission, and the Cummins diesel, they would probably sell a lot of them to people who really need a hard core 4WD pickup. Even the funky cab--an outdated relic from the 1939 Dodge 2WD truck even back when the Power Wagon came out in 1946--would be neat. Will never happen, of course. (One of the reasons that Dodge quit building it was that the dies to stamp out the cab components were completely worn out by 1971.)
The Duromax diesels are designed by Isuzu. Not sure if they are built here but the Japanese designed them.
When I worked for GMC parts I was at the local Isuzu dealer picking up parts when our stock was depleted..
ACTUALLY GM POWERTRAIN DESIGNED THE DURAMAX, THEN TURNED OVER TO GM/ISUZU the manufacturing of them. When we were running the Orange Crush, (first Duramax powered truck to run 9's in the 1/4) I got to meet some of the design team members. The engine was turned over to the gm/isuzu plant for manufacturing. Plus it was a way to hopefully finally make gm's investment in isuzu look like it might have been worth it. All about the stock prices and stock returns. It's a cool plant in Moraine, Ohio, you should tour it sometime.
I have to disagree. A lot of the 1970's era trucks had C-channel frames that would flex like hell in off-camber situations. Many of the newer trucks now have full-boxed frames that are strong and rigid. The earlier trucks (1950's-1960's) had very beefy frames, but had the weight that went with it. For absolute tough, the 1946-1968 (1971 for export models) one-ton civilian Dodge Power Wagon was an absolute tank. Of course, its flathead 6-cylinder engine was good for about 55 mph maximum flat-out and they got about 8-10 mpg on a good day, the steering wheel could break your thumbs if you hit a rock with the front wheel, and you had to have linebacker's calves to use the brakes--but there has never been a tougher 4WD pickup built since.
Like this:
I always thought that if Dodge would build this truck with modern brakes, steering, transmission, and the Cummins diesel, they would probably sell a lot of them to people who really need a hard core 4WD pickup. Even the funky cab--an outdated relic from the 1939 Dodge 2WD truck even back when the Power Wagon came out in 1946--would be neat. Will never happen, of course. (One of the reasons that Dodge quit building it was that the dies to stamp out the cab components were completely worn out by 1971.)
If Dodge is to build these again, they will sell them!!! The "modern" steering and brakes alone would be all 99 percent would ask for!!! Plus the new style from 4.7 baby v8 up to the 426hp Hemi, add in optional a/c, and it's the truck guys would want!
I thought when this was first posted that it was a troll or a joke because no one would seriously try to compare the little Japanese trucks with the range of US trucks that make up the bulk of the US truck fleet. But the thread has persisted and now I have read a little of it. Just enough to make ne realize that this thread is not about trucks, it is about the weak little vehicles that people use as cars with a pickup bed on them.
Can you compare an S10 with a Tacoma? You do know that the Tacoma cost twice as much as the S10, right? Like comparing an Impala with a Lexus.
As for their durability, don't get me wrong, I love my 1991 Toyota PU with the 22RE motor but, these trucks are extremely hard to find because they mostly rusted themselves into the junk yard while their US counterparts still clank along.
ACTUALLY GM POWERTRAIN DESIGNED THE DURAMAX, THEN TURNED OVER TO GM/ISUZU the manufacturing of them. When we were running the Orange Crush, (first Duramax powered truck to run 9's in the 1/4) I got to meet some of the design team members. The engine was turned over to the gm/isuzu plant for manufacturing. Plus it was a way to hopefully finally make gm's investment in isuzu look like it might have been worth it. All about the stock prices and stock returns. It's a cool plant in Moraine, Ohio, you should tour it sometime.
I was just pointing out to those who claim the Japanese could not produce a heavy duty pickup that the engines are already available.
The Medium Duty Isuzu trucks already run the Duromax V-8 Diesel.
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