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Old 07-17-2011, 08:00 PM
 
3 posts, read 22,839 times
Reputation: 15

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[INDENT]we bought a used car, traded in a car. estimated the pay off on the trade-in. All papers were signed with the dealer, loan was approved for new purchase and all papers were signed; 8 days ago.
Today the car dealer called and the payoff is $900 more than he thought so he wants us to give him $900 more dollars....
Can he do this?
Contracts signed, loan approved and signed.
TY [/INDENT]
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Chicago
36,588 posts, read 57,867,463 times
Reputation: 25609
Tell him to eat a sack of dks.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
2,421 posts, read 2,741,997 times
Reputation: 3043
The dealer settled for the payoff amount , then drew up the contract.
Looks like the dealer should have gotten an exact payoff figure beforehand.
They will have to east this one.
Bob.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:21 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 4,226,624 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by webe3family View Post
we bought a used car, traded in a car. estimated the pay off on the trade-in. All papers were signed with the dealer, loan was approved for new purchase and all papers were signed; 8 days ago.
Today the car dealer called and the payoff is $900 more than he thought so he wants us to give him $900 more dollars....
Can he do this?
Contracts signed, loan approved and signed.
TY
No. You have a contract. You cannot add new terms to a contract after it has been written and signed by all parties. Tell them no, and if they persist tell them you will contact a lawyer. If they keep persisting contact a lawyer.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:28 PM
 
3 posts, read 22,839 times
Reputation: 15
Thank you!
We did tell him we were going to talk to a lawyer and he said we didn't have to go that far.
He also said something about trying to re-do the loan and add it on there (but we have already signed the loan papers) even signed up for auto WD to the finance co. But he said if the loan thing didn't work out we could come and get our old car back.
We said the deal was done and not to bother to re-do the loan papers.
I just want to verify that we are "correct"
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:35 PM
 
4,561 posts, read 4,169,756 times
Reputation: 5172
Quote:
Originally Posted by webe3family View Post
Thank you!
We did tell him we were going to talk to a lawyer and he said we didn't have to go that far.

He also said something about trying to re-do the loan and add it on there (but we have already signed the loan papers) even signed up for auto WD to the finance co. But he said if the loan thing didn't work out we could come and get our old car back.
We said the deal was done and not to bother to re-do the loan papers.
I just want to verify that we are "correct"

LOL, I'll BET!
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:36 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 22,481,894 times
Reputation: 8065
Better re-read your contract agreements. They may have certain terms in there that specify that your final purchase price is subject to the acceptance and terms by the financing company that the dealer has taken your purchase agreement to.

This is a very common, and very legal, way that a dealer locks you into a purchase, where you have agreed upon the price of the new car, the trade-in value of your old car, and a proposed financing agreement which is subject to a final review and acceptance.

The problem with these types of sales contracts for a consumer is that you've left your trade-in with the dealer, and you've left the lot with the new car ... and are now putting miles on it, so it's no longer a new car and cannot be returned for full value to the dealership. Not only that, but many times the dealer has already sold your trade-in by the time your finance deal comes back with the new terms, so you can't get your old car back.

I have always advised my clients to do two things:

1) have a pre-purchase inspection performed on the specific vehicle that the dealer is selling to you by an independent auto shop/tech;

2) never never never leave a dealership with a new car that is being financed by the dealer until you are assured by an officer of the dealership ... not just the sales manager or salesman who wrote and signed off on the contract "deal", or the F&I manager ... that the deal as written is the final deal. That's right ... do not leave your trade-in car with the dealer, nor accept the new car and leave the lot with it until the deal is, in fact, completely finalized. Even if it means waiting to take delivery of your purchase for a few days until the financing is finalized, it is important not to leave yourself vulnerable to these sales tactics.

What the dealership has done in writing the deal is to estimate the financing deal that will be accepted by the finance company. But it's not the acceptance of the deal as a final deal, it only an estimate ... and the dealership will deliberately underestimate many deals so that your purchase price appears ... as yours did ... to be an acceptable amount of money to do the deal. But then, sometime later, you get the news that your deal needs more money ... long after you've left the lot with your purchase.

Of course, if you have done your own financing and present a check for the purchase price and establish that your deal is the final complete and correct deal, paid in full, then that's a different situation.

But many people are "stung" by this type of dealer tactic of never having a completely signed off and released deal until it's been reviewed by the financial agency that the dealer has taken the deal to. There's always something ... credit isn't good enough, they need more money up front, or higher monthly payments, or higher interest rate ... whatever, they can and will find a legal way to nick you for more money.

The bottom line is that the contract you signed isn't the final done deal, and somewhere in their contract, there's the loopholes spelled out to allow them to do this type of sales tactic.

Sorry, but I've seen and heard of this type of sales tactic day in and day out for over 30 years. It's more common than your think and you can call your lawyer all day long on this ... but the dealers who do these kinds of finance deals have their ducks in a row and their contracts well crafted to be within the law of the states they do this in. Other than goodwill, you will have little to rely upon or recourse except to pay up per the new terms of the sale presented by the dealership.

FWIW, Tom Martino ... on his "troubleshooter show" based in Denver, probably hears about this type of automotive sale deal tactic a couple of times per day. It's that common throughout the industry, and it's very legal. Everything that folk posting here think they know about contract law simply doesn't apply ... a "deal is a deal" per the contract isn't really final in these situations because the contract spells out the terms that the financing at the time the dealership wrote and signed the contract is only an estimate, not the final acceptance of the deal. Worse part of all ... in many states, while you do business with a salesman and a sales manager who signs off and approves a deal, along with the F&I manager ... none of them are actually officers of the corporation and in a very fine point of law (in some states), not actually authorized to sign a deal on behalf of the corporation. This, too, has stung a fair number of car buyers around the country when an real officer of the car dealership corporation comes back with a refusal to accept a deal as written by his sales staff; then they come back to you with a request for more money.

Last edited by sunsprit; 07-17-2011 at 08:53 PM..
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,097 posts, read 14,425,325 times
Reputation: 7707
Get on Facebook, myspace, angie's list, and your local news and tell as many people in your area what this particular dealership is doing. If they were hurting for cash before, wait'll their sales numbers drop. There may be some hidden legalese in the contract making it legal but that doesn't make it right.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:47 PM
 
3 posts, read 22,839 times
Reputation: 15
Sunsprit,
The financing is through a CU and the dealership did call her and ask her to change theloan amount, she told them no she could not do that without our approval. (she just called us to tell us this)
We did look over our contract with a fine tooth comb.
Our disagreement is the payoff on the trade in; usually they have you sign where it says if it is more than on the contract the customer pays the differnece. Well they forgot to have us sign that.
So.... does the sales guy "eat it" or how far can they really push us? I can push back just as hard
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:52 PM
 
6,351 posts, read 4,226,624 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Better re-read your contract agreements. They may have certain terms in there that specify that your final purchase price is subject to the acceptance and terms by the financing company that the dealer has taken your purchase agreement to.

This is a very common, and very legal, way that a dealer locks you into a purchase, where you have agreed upon the price of the new car, the trade-in value of your old car, and a proposed financing agreement which is subject to a final review and acceptance.

The problem with these types of sales contracts for a consumer is that you've left your trade-in with the dealer, and you've left the lot with the new car ... and are now putting miles on it, so it's no longer a new car and cannot be returned for full value to the dealership. Not only that, but many times the dealer has already sold your trade-in by the time your finance deal comes back with the new terms, so you can't get your old car back.

I have always advised my clients to do two things:

1) have a pre-purchase inspection performed on the specific vehicle that the dealer is selling to you by an independent auto shop/tech;

2) never never never leave a dealership with a new car that is being financed by the dealer until you are assured by an officer of the dealership ... not just the sales manager or salesman who wrote and signed off on the contract "deal", or the F&I manager ... that the deal as written is the final deal. That's right ... do not leave your trade-in car with the dealer, nor accept the new car and leave the lot with it until the deal is, in fact, completely finalized.

Of course, if you have done your own financing and present a check for the purchase price and establish that your deal is the final complete and correct deal, paid in full, then that's a different situation.

But many people are "stung" by this type of dealer tactic of never having a completely signed off and released deal until it's been reviewed by the financial agency that the dealer has taken the deal to. There's always something ... credit isn't good enough, they need more money up front, or higher monthly payments, or higher interest rate ... whatever, they can and will find a legal way to nick you for more money.

The bottom line is that the contract you signed isn't the final done deal, and somewhere in their contract, there's the loopholes spelled out to allow them to do this type of sales tactic.

Sorry, but I've seen and heard of this type of sales tactic day in and day out for over 30 years. It's more common than your think and you can call your lawyer all day long on this ... but the dealers who do these kinds of finance deals have their ducks in a row and their contracts well crafted to be within the law of the states they do this in. Other than goodwill, you will have little to rely upon or recourse except to pay up per the new terms of the sale presented by the dealership.
Good point. Reread the contract and make sure you didnt agree to anything that will allow them to increase the price. If there is nothing in the contract that allows them to change the price they legally cant, but who knows what kind of clauses the put into these agreements.
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