Death of the pickup truck. (air conditioning, minivans, mileage, purchase)

[snofarmer]

There window stickers might suggest that kind of millage but in the real world after they are loaded down with the owners stuff and occupants the millage goes way down.
A another point of contention is the world is not flat, it has hills. these inflated MPG # fall even further than that of a truck.

I see 20 -22mph with my truck.
Few full size cars get better millage when used in the real world. Be you a redneck or not.
Have you seen the numbers ford posts about it's new f150?

Example
My Toyota 4 runner only gets17-19mpg at best on a flat road with a tail wind.

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Huh? I've yet to see any current model pickup truck sold in the USA get anything over about 25 mpg highway in real world driving. Most full-size and mid-sized cars today will easily achieve that, and economy cars can get 38-40 mpg highway. Now, with my stupid redneck math, 38 mpg is about 52% higher fuel economy than 25 mpg--giving a pickup fuel economy that can hardly be called "rivaling" that of an economy car.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

There window stickers might suggest that kind of millage but in the real world after they are loaded down with the owners stuff and occupants the millage goes way down.
A another point of contention is the world is not flat, it has hills. these inflated MPG # fall even further than that of a truck.

I see 20 -22mph with my truck.
Few full size cars get better millage when used in the real world. Be you a redneck or not.
Have you seen the numbers ford posts about it's new f150?

Example
My Toyota 4 runner only gets17-19mpg at best on a flat road with a tail wind.

I drive a 4-cylinder mid-sized sedan as my daily driver. All of my driving is above 4,500 feet elevation and a lot of it in the mountains from 6,000-11,000 feet. My fuel economy--hand-calculated at every fill-up--averages between 32-39 mpg on the highway. I follow the speed limits, but I don't baby the car climbing passes, etc. Around town, I typically get 22-24 mpg. Prior to this car, I had a full-size sedan that I drove for several years. I would typically get around 30-32 mpg with it on the highway, but its in-town fuel economy would drop to about 21 mpg.

As for the F-150, if you are talking about the Eco-Boost engine, the people I know who work on them (including my local Ford dealer) say they are one of the biggest mistakes that Ford ever made. They are proving to be very trouble-prone and their expected service life is likely going to be very low. In real world driving, they are not getting any better fuel economy than the 5.0 V8. I have always been a big fan of well-built turbocharged diesel engines, but my opinion of turbocharged gasoline engines is low, based on my own experience and that of others.

I've been driving pickup trucks for over 40 years and, for the purposes for which they are designed, they are an invaluable tool. However, with today's fuel costs (which are going to continue to climb over the long-term, whether we like it or not), they are an ill-suited vehicle for people who use them only as a commuter or passenger vehicle.

Then, too, there is acquisition and maintenance costs. A new pickup can cost half-again as much as a new mid-size car--often way more. I just priced out a new basic 4WD 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel pickup for work use--over $40K MSRP--that's getting toward luxury sedan price territory. Deleting the diesel option drops the price about $8K, but you get a vehicle that will get about 14-15 mpg, at best, with fuel economy down around 11 mpg if you do any in-town driving at all. "Fancy up" that diesel 4x4 pickup and the price can climb over $60K. I could buy two really nice economy sedans for that. And, tires for that pickup cost about double what tires for a sedan cost--and often won't last for as many miles. Then, there are the more expensive oil changes, etc. Bottom line: pickups are no longer any cheap deal to own and drive. If a pickup is a necessary tool, it's one thing, but its days as some statement of "Look at me, I drive a pickup truck because I'm macho" (including when some women want to be "macho") are about over. Considering that pickups are the biggest sellers and most profitable vehicles that the American auto manufacturers sell, the coming decline in that market may treat them very harshly. I would expect one or more of the "Big 3" to be in the bankruptcy dumper (again) when that happens.

[snofarmer]

The costs of loans or a new vehicle loans, if you have decent credit you can get a rather expensive (new) vehicle with some vary reasonable rates and payments these days.

So lots jump into the 21th+ century. Technology will advance and so will millage gains.
I also predict small diesel 4-3cyl engines in trucks and some will even be Hy-breads someday .(diesel over electric)
The millage will increase, or keep in steep with the avg passenger car or small suv's.

so what's the big deal again.

it's all relative.

I have a old truck that gets 9-14mpg and a new one that gets 20-22mph

I had a 1980 Toyota 4x4 pick up with the 22r in the mountains and it didn't get as good of millage as my new full size 4x4 does.

You and your look at me factor, ya know some of us actually use a truck for more than getting grocery's or to show off. I have no idea what I could do with a sedan?
drive around and look cool or get some grocery's?
I couldn't bring along the wife, grand kid (s) 3 dogs or the traivel trailer along useing the sedan nor could I work it like a truck and not just now and then.
but then again if someone wants a truck just to be cool it's there prerogative.

I didn't say I like fords or what they are doing but it shows technology is working to bring up mpg

ps, no one pays sticker.
I got a loaded diesel 4x4 out the door for 32k
any my wife did the haggling. (I was away from home, The truck was a surprise)
You need to shop around.

I like our little debates.


p.s.s. a 32k-60k truck or $45k for a Volt, I don't see much difference in price at this point.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by snofarmer

The costs of loans or a new vehicle loans, if you have decent credit you can get a rather expensive (new) vehicle with some vary reasonable rates and payments these days.

So lots jump into the 21th+ century. Technology will advance and so will millage gains.
I also predict small diesel 4-3cyl engines in trucks and some will even be Hy-breads someday .(diesel over electric)
The millage will increase, or keep in steep with the avg passenger car or small suv's.

so what's the big deal again.

it's all relative.

I have a old truck that gets 9-14mpg and a new one that gets 20-22mph

I had a 1980 Toyota 4x4 pick up with the 22r in the mountains and it didn't get as good of millage as my new full size 4x4 does.

You and your look at me factor, ya know some of us actually use a truck for more than getting grocery's or to show off. I have no idea what I could do with a sedan?
drive around and look cool or get some grocery's?
I couldn't bring along the wife, grand kid (s) 3 dogs or the traivel trailer along useing the sedan nor could I work it like a truck and not just now and then.
but then again if someone wants a truck just to be cool it's there prerogative.

I didn't say I like fords or what they are doing but it shows technology is working to bring up mpg

ps, no one pays sticker.
I got a loaded diesel 4x4 out the door for 32k
any my wife did the haggling. (I was away from home, The truck was a surprise)
You need to shop around.

I like our little debates.


p.s.s. a 32k-60k truck or $45k for a Volt, I don't see much difference in price at this point.

I've never paid MSRP for a vehicle--ever. Usually, I pay dealer invoice or less. I seldom buy new, unless I need a vehicle with special options that aren't commonly available on the used market. I also don't buy a vehicle unless I can pay cash for it. I will take a 0% loan and keep my cash in the bank if I can get it, but I can always pay cash if I have to. I don't believe in taking a loan with an interest charge to buy any depreciating asset. I typically keep any vehicle I buy for a minimum of 10 years, as well.

As for fuel economy in trucks, it really has improved very little in the last 10 years or so. The newer trucks may have more horsepower, but their fuel economy has not improved--and the manufacturers don't seem to be doing much to change that. Maybe they will, but they aren't right now. In the case of diesel pickups, the inane, poorly crafted US diesel emission standards actually caused fuel economy to decline in diesel pickups sold in the US from 2007 until 2011. Fuel economy has improved with the 2011 models, but it is no higher than it was 10 years ago, and it has required the addition of a couple of thousand dollars of complex emission equipment to the trucks.

[Cletus Awreetus-Awrightus]

i was recently in the market for a small, reliable used japanese pickup.

somehow i ended up with a toyota tundra. it basically cost the same thing as a Tacoma, and wasn't much bigger, and didn't have much difference in gas mileage. those small ones really come at a premium.

[snofarmer]

Jazz,
I can argue the other side of paying cash for a vehicle vs a loan but this thread isn't about that. Ive done both, it depends what your going to do with it or how long you intend on keeping it.

As My post and others have hit on is those small trucks in most cases didn't get better millage than a full size truck.


As you pointed out the biggest killer to the trucks millage has been these stupid HP wars.
A lot of folks have retrofired 4 cylinders diesel in to there trucks with some impressive mpg gains.
In the future the hp will go down to meet even stricter emission and mpg requirements.
The times are a changing.

I agree if it wasn't for clean air (epa) all vehicles would get better fuel millage.

[Hwy phantom]

My main point of this thread is that I think at least one auto company should create a compact pickup truck capable of getting 30 mpg and at a reasonable price because I think there is a market for it.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

My main point of this thread is that I think at least one auto company should create a compact pickup truck capable of getting 30 mpg and at a reasonable price because I think there is a market for it.

I fully agree with that opinion. There are several of them sold overseas, all diesel models, that get that kind of fuel economy. Unfortunately, they can not meet the poorly crafted US diesel emission standards that are preventing all kinds of very fuel-efficient vehicles from being sold here.

Because our EPA has a single-track obession with tailpipe emissions, they ignore all of the air pollution and other environmental impacts from degraded fuel economy that overly-restrictive and ill-crafted vehicle emission standards cause--adverse impacts from additional drilling, the various pollution associated with having to refine and transport more fuel, etc., etc. Simply stated, the EPA refuses to take a holistic approach at looking at petroleum-based emissions from well-head to tailpipe--if they did, the balance between vehicle fuel economy and tailpipe emissions would be much different. Meanwhile, Americans are deprived of all kinds of fuel-efficient vehicles, including some pickup models, sold in other parts of the world.

[New Wave Carpetbagger]

I also think there's a market for compact pickups in the US. I recently picked up an El Camino with a new crate engine and rebuilt transmission and judging from the number of other restored El Caminos I see on the road, Ebay, Craigslist, etc. there must be some demand. Similar modern vehicles, such as the Chevy Montana, are sold all over South America, along with Holden Utes in Australia. I don't go off road or haul huge loads of stuff and I wanted a truck that I didn't need a step ladder to get in and out of.

[Jimrob1]

Originally Posted by trlhiker

Where do you get your info from? Toyota and Nissan are still making pickups and will be for a very long time. The Tacoma is the #1 selling mid-sized on the market. The Ford Ranger is gone from the US market for now. The new one will only be available overseas. Don't know anything about the Dodge. The Chevy doesn't make the S10 and hasn't in many years. The pickup is the Colorado which is mediocre at best.

Yes Chevy ended S10 production in 2003. I bought mine in Feb 03 and so far its been a good truck. I was sorry to hear Ford is ending US production of the Ford Ranger. I think I read they are closing the Twin cities Plant, where the Ranger was built this month. More people out of work.