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Think seat belt = quick stop
So the air bag goes off protecting your head or stopping the damage from hitting the steering wheel (a good looking corps) what about your chest and gut?
A quick stop can damage your internal organs.
I guess now that we have air bags we can do away with crumple zones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc63
With airbags and crumple zones, the energy is not transferred internally to the occupants. All occupants of the car I pictured are doing fine.
The threat of a fire from a Volt is real and I am sure the investigation is not based on potential fire it was based upon 'a fire' and the investigation will lead the investigators to a conclusion of the source, risk factors, and procedural changes in the event of a fire.
While that is going on I will not be inclined to look at nor test drive a $45,000 Volt that 'potentially' can burn me up like a potato chip through a fryer....
While that is going on I will not be inclined to look at nor test drive a $45,000 Volt that 'potentially' can burn me up like a potato chip through a fryer....
All cars can potentially burn you up. Something about how flammable gasoline is. Tell me what kind of car you drive and I can find pictures of one burning down.
Think seat belt = quick stop
So the air bag goes off protecting your head or stopping the damage from hitting the steering wheel (a good looking corps) what about your chest and gut?
A quick stop can damage your internal organs.
The people in that Volt are fine. Period. Full stop. Nothing you can say can change that. The car worked as designed. Airbags and crumple zones are why highways are safer than ever.
Quote:
I guess now that we have air bags we can do away with crumple zones?
What?? I TALKED ABOUT CRUMPLE ZONES, TOO!
Moderator cut: No personal attacks
The point is you are wrong about cars transferring more energy to occupants. They transfer LESS energy than ever to the occupants. The Volt I pictured is proof of that.
I'm sorry but that pic of the volt showed us nothing about the forces that occurred in that crash. Heck, as far as we know that was a 30mph rear end crash that propelled the car forward. The occupants were thrown back into the seat not forward.
Anyway I wasn't talking about that pic.
Yes, cars have become safer with the use of crumple zones and a larger car will have a larger crumple zone so even if a ridged passenger compartment is used the larger crumple zone will absorb the impact rather than the occupants.
A small car needs to have a more rigid passenger compartment to stop intrusion because of the limited crumple zone . This will result in more forces being transferred to the occupants.
Some crashes will be head on or with a fixed object at much grater speeds that the volt in your pic. resulting in greater forces on the occupants.
All cars can potentially burn you up. Something about how flammable gasoline is. Tell me what kind of car you drive and I can find pictures of one burning down.
I fully and totally agree but as I went back to the start of this thread it was specifically and only about the Chevy Volt burning up.
So if one rationalizes that the Volt burned up because any car can burn up than why would they spend a lot of money investigating this Volt fire?
The inference you are making is because all cars have the potential to burn up than the Volt is no better or worse than any car that can go <poof>....
I fully and totally agree but as I went back to the start of this thread it was specifically and only about the Chevy Volt burning up.
So if one rationalizes that the Volt burned up because any car can burn up than why would they spend a lot of money investigating this Volt fire?
The inference you are making is because all cars have the potential to burn up than the Volt is no better or worse than any car that can go <poof>....
They are investigating it because it is a "new" technology and the fire just happened to occur at their testing facility three weeks after it was crash tested.
Officials from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the crash damaged the Volt’s lithium ion battery and that damage eventually caused the fire.
“That incident — which occurred at the test facility and caused property damage but no injuries — remains the only case of a battery-related fire in a crash or crash test of vehicles powered by lithium-ion batteries, despite a number of other rigorous crash tests of the Chevy Volt separately conducted by both NHTSA and General Motors,” regulators said in a statement.
NHTSA said it believes that electric vehicles have no greater risk of fire than any other vehicles.
But since electric vehicles represent new technology just coming to the market, regulators want to develop protocols for post-crash situations to make sure that consumers and emergency responders don't get hurt and that damaged vehicles are stored in a manner that would prevent a fire at a later time.
A swing and a miss. that is how to safely cut one open and how to disable the battery.
What if it is damaged in the crash and can't be disabled by pulling a fuse or module?
We are talking about one that has been compromised in a crash.
but your latest link does support my position that it is a real concern for rescue workers.
Not all folks will have this info as a good samaritan will try to help trapped occupants before emergency workers arrive,
this could be very dangerous for them.(a unseen danger)
OR
maybe you don't under stand that even if you disconnect the battery the battery still holds a charge.
If the battery is compromised, A shard of metal pierces it causing a short electrifying all metal parts of the vehicle, even pulling the fuse pulling or a module , cutting the wires will not remove this potential danger.
Did you even read NJGOAT's post #17?
"since electric vehicles represent new technology just coming to the market, regulators want to develop protocols for post-crash situations to make sure that consumers and emergency responders don't get hurt and that damaged vehicles are stored in a manner that would prevent a fire at a later time."
Ps as a first responder myself this is a real concern for me as a lot of times I'm/we are the first ones on the seen.
and we will not get the same training as the fire dept nor will we have the tools to disable the battery.
Last edited by snofarmer; 11-15-2011 at 10:40 AM..
If we are arguing about increased risk to first responders with hybrid and electrical vehicles, then snofarmer is correct that this is a real situation that is taken very seriously by first responders. They have developed a seven step "lock-out, tag-out" procedure for use on hybrid and electric cars that require these steps to be completed before any extrication can begin. Given, most of these are common sense things, but there is an elevated risk factor as the fail-safes aren't always fail-safe. The main thing is that they must access and cut the positive 12-volt line in the car, they can't work on it until that's done and it's a step not needed on regular cars.
There is also concern over the mounting location of the batteries as some automakers had contemplated storing the batteries outboard. This would cause obvious issues when cutting into the car as the batteries still hold a charge even when the system is deactivated. This also reinforces that the responders need to know where the batteries are located in the car before they start hacking at it.
However, I would say that this is not a major issue and is probably minor compared to other newer car systems like extensive sets of rollover and side impact airbags that need to be secured with special clamps to prevent them from going off and injuring rescue workers. More rescue personnel have probably been injured from air bags than almost any other reason at an accident scene.
So, is it a concern, yes. Is it a major concern, not really.
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The people in that Volt are fine. Period. Full stop. Nothing you can say can change that. The car worked as designed. Airbags and crumple zones are why highways are safer than ever.
