Why the Fiat 500 isn't selling... (Germany, hybrid, sell, batteries)

[jade408]

I think Fiat would have a huge seller on its hands if the mpg increased a lot.

[Merc63]

How much worse than the MINI is it for mpg? At current fuel prices in the US, we're still into bigger cars.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by jade408

I think Fiat would have a huge seller on its hands if the mpg increased a lot.

For someone that drives 12,000 miles per year, with fuel at $3.50 per gallon, the difference between 35 MPG and 40 MPG is just $150 per year.

[Cyberguy1950]

Here was my last Fiat, a wonderful fun car

Till the timing belt snaps and takes all the intake valves out.They were famous for head gasket problems and over heating when I worked at the Fiat dealer "Alan Byer" in Syracuse,NY like I said .My opinions are based on working on the dam things for yrs.Same deal with Saab stories, Triumphs, Jags.
The "elite" in you're state are the only ones buying Volts.The sales # speak for themselves.
To think making batteries is "green" technology is crazy thinking.
The Volt, To think that's a solution is ludicrous .
As a working Master Auto Tech for 35+ yrs.
Comparing a Mini Cooper to that Fiat is really hilarious,the Cooper is a fun cool looking car.The Fiat looks like something in my son's Mattel hot wheels collection.lol
But that's just MO.
Carry on "keyboard racer".

[NJGOAT]

Till the timing belt snaps and takes all the intake valves out.

Which is true of any interference engine.

They were famous for head gasket problems and over heating when I worked at the Fiat dealer "Alan Byer" in Syracuse,NY like I said .My opinions are based on working on the dam things for yrs.Same deal with Saab stories, Triumphs, Jags.

FIAT's haven't been sold in the US since 1984. Are you seriously going to attribute the current cars as being the same thing as the ones from the late 70's and early 80's? Same story with Triumph. At least when you are critical of SAAB and Jaguar, we can pull examples from this decade.

The "elite" in you're state are the only ones buying Volts.The sales # speak for themselves.

What do you consider "elite" there are plenty of regular people buying them. NJ was one of the launch states and they can't keep them on dealer lots. The lease deal is incredibly attractive and priced lower than most regular cars.

To think making batteries is "green" technology is crazy thinking.

How is it crazy when you can charge batteries from a myriad of power generation sources? That's ultimately what decides whether it is green or not. A battery powered car charged by solar, wind or nuclear is much cleaner than an ICE car.

The Volt To think that's a solution is ludicrous .

Then what's the solution?

As a working Master Auto Tech for 35+ yrs.
Carry on "keyboard racer".

Wow, an ASE Master Tech. You needed what, a whole 2 years of experience (1 if you went to tech school) and the ability to pass the 8 tests? I'm impressed.

[Cyberguy1950]

How is it crazy when you can charge batteries from a myriad of power generation sources? That's ultimately what decides whether it is green or not. A battery powered car charged by solar, wind or nuclear is much cleaner than an ICE car.

Now that is 2 funny.
The solution is conventional vehicles burning gasoline or clean diesel.
Batteries have to be charged with electricity that mostly comes from coal burning utilities.
Research the environmental disaster making batteries causes world wide.
Again keyboard racer, the Volt is a solution looking for a problem./
[quote]
The problem is that "environmentally-friendly" is, for now, a groundless trend that stirs more conversation than consumerism. The sticker price for electric cars is astronomical, as car shoppers would actually save money purchasing a Mercedes-Benz C350 over a Chevy Volt. People are simply not ready to drop $40,000 for a smaller, slower, and less attractive vehicle — at twice the expense.
Such a dilemma brings to question the debate over government subsidies, as well as the billions of dollars in federal spending that gets dumped into the research well. Many taxpayers ask: "If the cars aren’t selling, why are we funding the research?"

"There are insufficient economically recoverable lithium resources available to sustain electrified vehicle manufacture in the volumes required, based solely on LiIon batteries.
"Depletion rates would exceed current oil depletion rates and switch dependency from one diminishing resource to another. Concentration of supply would create new geopolitical tensions, not reduce them," Tahil wrote.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by Cyberguy1950

Now that is 2 funny.
The solution is conventional vehicles burning gasoline or clean diesel.
batteries have to be charged with electricity that mostly comes from coal burning utilities.
Research the environmental disaster making batteries causes work wide.
Again keyboard racer, the Volt is a solution looking for a problem./
[/b]

I'm not against any solution and I don't offhand dismiss the role vehicles like the Volt can play as a bridge technology. There is a lot that could be gained from increasing our use of diesel and the various feedstock that can be used to create it. I'm not a global warming nut job, just a realist that understands we need to curb our consumption of oil while simultaneously increasing the percentage of oil we use from our own sources and friendly nations. You don't have to believe in anthropogenic global warming to see the necessity of reducing pollutants and lessening our dependence on oil in transportation.

In the US, we currently generate 45% of our electricity from coal. This is down significantly over the past several years as we have continued to invest in renewable energy. It is not completely unrealistic that we could lower our coal usage down to around 25% by 2050. The difference when it comes to using electric for cars is that large numbers of the cars can charge offpeak on the grid without changing the actual amount of power generated, much of it is simply wasted overnight as the plants are not throttled up and down, they run at a constant rate. It is also much easier to control the emissions and the source of generation from one power plant than it is to do it from thousands of individual cars. Yes, it's a challenge, but a surmopuntable one.

I'm assuming you read the old "research paper" about Hummers being more environmentally friendly then Prius' from CNW Marketing Research? Never mind that the CNW paper was funded by GM, there were holes in their methods that you could drive a truck through. However, there is a valid point that mining for the metals used in batteries isn't exactly environmentally friendly. However, while lead batteries are horrendous and nickel batteries just OK, Lithium, the new standard aren't that bad at all depending on what they are cut with. It also helps that the manufacturers pay bounties on having the batteries returned to them for recycling. As of current count, not a single hybrid car battery has gone into a landfill, all have been recycled.

The Volt may not be the answer, but it is a good bridge technology. You on the other hand choose to ignore problems that seem beyond your grasp as realistic to overcome. Thank God, the world isn't run by people that can't get beyond the fact that FIAT timing belts were troublesome in the 1970's.

Keep trying grease monkey.

[Cyberguy1950]

Insults are nice, just proves the arrogance and ignorance you have toward real facts.
The Fiat Spyder was a 80's vehicle ...
The only way they will sell is if Obamanation forces people to buy them.
More failed government intervention.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

For someone that drives 12,000 miles per year, with fuel at $3.50 per gallon, the difference between 35 MPG and 40 MPG is just $150 per year.

Real world reviews have the gas mileage even lower. I decided to take the car makers metrics with a grain of salt. The last car I got claimed 21/33. During my 8 years with the car, I averaged 24.5 or so with my driving mix.

The Fiat:27/34: real world is 30? For such a small car, I would expect 35 minimum.

[catman]

If you want something with Italian style that is small and cute, buy a Vespa.