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Old 12-17-2011, 09:01 AM
 
5,138 posts, read 4,454,633 times
Reputation: 5450
In addition to the reality that the oil's viscosity and its anti-wear additives and detergents begin to break down after...maybe 8,000 miles or so, there is another factor to consider, namely the propensity of oil to become somewhat acidic.


The constant heating/cooling cycles of the engine, coupled with the build-up of moisture in the oil as a normal byproduct of combustion, will inevitably lead to oil gradually becoming acidic if it is not changed on a regular basis. No matter how good a filter might be in terms of removing particulate matter from the oil, a filter will do nothing about the damaging nature of oil that has turned acidic.

I am a thrifty person by nature, but I will stick to my current schedule of changing the oil every 4k miles/4 months.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:41 AM
 
19,449 posts, read 14,960,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retriever View Post

I am a thrifty person by nature, but I will stick to my current schedule of changing the oil every 4k miles/4 months.
What do you suppose would happen if you doubled your oil change interval and went to an 8/8 schedule..?
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,958 posts, read 7,745,525 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nayabone View Post
I've been a mechanic for over forty years and have seen hundreds of engines destroyed by that crap. I haven't seen them for years, and would be surprised to find out if they are even still made.
This one is as bad as your claim about how much money you saved by buying gas at the perfect time..
Stick to something you know, if such a thing exists.....
Then explain how this company has stayed in business for so long avoiding being sued outta business?

What say you, Batman?
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,958 posts, read 7,745,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retriever View Post
In addition to the reality that the oil's viscosity and its anti-wear additives and detergents begin to break down after...maybe 8,000 miles or so, there is another factor to consider, namely the propensity of oil to become somewhat [COLOR=red]acidic[/color].


The constant heating/cooling cycles of the engine, coupled with the build-up of moisture in the oil as a normal byproduct of combustion, will inevitably lead to oil gradually becoming acidic if it is not changed on a regular basis. No matter how good a filter might be in terms of removing particulate matter from the oil, a filter will do nothing about the damaging nature of oil that has turned acidic.

I am a thrifty person by nature, but I will stick to my current schedule of changing the oil every 4k miles/4 months.
Much of the concerns about oil contamination in the engine are untrue to today. These beliefs are throwbacks to the days of non-detergent oils that are no longer used.

Todays oils will "re-charge" when a filter is changed and one or two quarts of oil are added back to replace the lost filter oil.

It is also very important to drive (NOT idle) your car for at least 30min of constant engine run time to boil off the aromatic contaminates in the engine crankcase at least once a week.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:56 AM
 
5,138 posts, read 4,454,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
What do you suppose would happen if you doubled your oil change interval and went to an 8/8 schedule..?

I believe that I would run the risk of damaging oil sludge accumulating in the oil passages. Under no circumstances would I go more than 6 months between oil changes.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retriever View Post
I believe that I would run the risk of damaging oil sludge accumulating in the oil passages. Under no circumstances would I go more than 6 months between oil changes.
I agree.

Since we are now retired we drive so little that I've put my vehicles on a spring and fall service interval regardless of how many miles driven.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW / CO / SA TX / Thailand
10,800 posts, read 17,583,040 times
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For me it depends on the vehicle use and engine (I have over 30 on the road).

My newer stuff (or tight japanese engines) get full synthetic ~ 20k changes (filter and fresh qt every 5k),
'Serviceable' beaters get dino with 1 qt of synthetic (for lubricity / additives) ~ 5,000 changes.
'Beaters' get 3,000 mile dino oil and filter. Filters only Baldwin, Fleetguard, or equivalent. Franz / bypass only in high use (road) rigs.

Mostly need to change due to carbon from Diesel 'Cylinder wash'
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Apple Valley Calif
7,334 posts, read 11,298,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Then explain how this company has stayed in business for so long avoiding being sued outta business?

What say you, Batman?
I'm not Batman, but I'll give it a go...
Franze filters became popular in the 40's and 50's before engines came out with oil filters. The factory full flow filters filtered 100% of the oil before it reached the bearings. The Franze is a partial flow filter, which means a small oil line was connected to an oil galley and only filtered the oil in that one passage.
They were extremely inefficent at best, and terrible at worst. Once they got some sludge in them, they would plug up and filtered nothing. Often, the toilet paper would break down and flow into the engine and cause oil starvation and possible engine destruction.
Once manufactures started building in full flow filters, the Franze and others like it went the way of high button shoes.
I haven't seen one in years and assumed everyone had wised up, but it looks like I was wrong.
I cannot imagine anyone would install one on a modern engine. They are like the "Run your car on water" devices. Every once in a while they gain popularity until the word gets out they are useless, then they die out for a few years until a new group of unsuspecting people fall for the pitch and the popularity soars for a few month again.
I suggest if you believe in them, go for it. They won't do you any good if you have a factory full flow filter, but they may just destroy your engine. The decision is up to the guy with the check book. but the best way to double your money is to fold it and put it back in your pocket...
Snake oil salesmen got their start the day after the wheel was invented, and have been seperating people from their money every since...
Everyone must decide for themselves, but I would STRONGLY advise against using one..
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:27 PM
 
2,122 posts, read 3,129,760 times
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I have a degree in Tribology. I'll let you figure out what that is.

The Franz filter worked decades ago when they came out but it doesn't work today with a modern engine. Several issues here. One has already been brought up and that's the combustion acids formed. Motor oils contain a lot of calciums and it's in there to neutralize these acids, namely sulfuric and hydrochloric acid from the gasoline. Then you have issues with the media itself. Paper, as in hiney wipe, will float thru the lube system. Gotta remember what it's designed for and filtering oil isn't it. With todays lube systems and VCT these particulates can and will foul a system which is why most US auto makers now have a TSB in regards to using the famous Orange Grenade better known as a Fram. Have an oil related failure and a Fram filter and yer on yer own as it is not an approved filter. Then you have issues with the flow rate thru the media. It's highly restrictive. With the old cars at 40lbs oil pressure it wasn't all that critical. But with todays engines making 100+lbs oil pressure at cold start up, the engine would be starving for oil. Overhead cam engines would suffer the most and probably wouldn't last long. The Franz filter is the posterboy for what's wrong in the world today.

FWIW, if your engine has a PCV system, you don't need to change oil by time, mileage only. When we went to the PCV systems the system is now closed to free radical oxygen which destroyed the old oils. So if you have a car that you don't drive much, change it at mileage, not time.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,958 posts, read 7,745,525 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn2390 View Post
I'm not Batman, but I'll give it a go...
Franze filters became popular in the 40's and 50's before engines came out with oil filters. The factory full flow filters filtered 100% of the oil before it reached the bearings. The Franze is a partial flow filter, which means a small oil line was connected to an oil galley and only filtered the oil in that one passage.
They were extremely inefficent at best, and terrible at worst. Once they got some sludge in them, they would plug up and filtered nothing. Often, the toilet paper would break down and flow into the engine and cause oil starvation and possible engine destruction.
Once manufactures started building in full flow filters, the Franze and others like it went the way of high button shoes.
I haven't seen one in years and assumed everyone had wised up, but it looks like I was wrong.
I cannot imagine anyone would install one on a modern engine. They are like the "Run your car on water" devices. Every once in a while they gain popularity until the word gets out they are useless, then they die out for a few years until a new group of unsuspecting people fall for the pitch and the popularity soars for a few month again.
I suggest if you believe in them, go for it. They won't do you any good if you have a factory full flow filter, but they may just destroy your engine. The decision is up to the guy with the check book. but the best way to double your money is to fold it and put it back in your pocket...
Snake oil salesmen got their start the day after the wheel was invented, and have been seperating people from their money every since...
Everyone must decide for themselves, but I would STRONGLY advise against using one..
WOOF!! Restudy your history here again! You have gotten it all wrong in what you posted. Sorry..........
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