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I will continue buying the high quality Japanese or Korean makes built in the USA. They build quality cars built by quality people.
I didn't know there ws such a thing as a "high quality" Korean car regardless of where it is bolted together. My personal experience has been that they are disposable cars that you buy cheap and crush them when they get a few years old and start falling apart then just buy a new one and start over.
Now, as for a high quality Japannese car, I won't take issue with that as long as you are willing to look past all the Toyota/Lexus recalls. Every manufacturer has been there at one time or another though.
It's sad to see so many people here applauding the cutting of their own financial throats. Nobody recognizes the value of a union any more and they are content to take whatever crumbs fall from the tables of the elites. With such an attitude, what does the future of this country look like?
Here's what it looks like: GE is in the process of expanding manufacturing in this country and even bringing some products back from overseas. Why? Because as their Chairman says, American labor costs have gotten more competitive. In other words, the average income of American workers has fallen to the point that we can compete with Chinese workers. The rising tide of globalism does not lift all boats...it reduces every worker in the world to the lowest common denominator. And, a key event in that reduction of workers value has been the destruction of unions.
If you think that's progress, and are happy that your children will never be able improve their lot in life because the value of their work will always be measured against the cheapest worker on the planet, then good for you. But, some of the rest of us will continue to fight for the right to organize and combat the unrestrained greed of those who would be our masters.
You may willingly go into that dark night, but I won't.
Here's what it looks like: GE is in the process of expanding manufacturing in this country and even bringing some products back from overseas. Why? Because as their Chairman says, American labor costs have gotten more competitive. In other words, the average income of American workers has fallen to the point that we can compete with Chinese workers.
I am not sure where you get you information but you must have GE confused with another company. They are in the process of moving all kinds of things to China and elsewhere investing 2 billion in China alone, not back to the US. Start by asking all the (soon to be former) GE employees in the Wisconsin XRay department about where their jobs are going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit
If you think that's progress, and are happy that your children will never be able improve their lot in life because the value of their work will always be measured against the cheapest worker on the planet, then good for you. But, some of the rest of us will continue to fight for the right to organize and combat the unrestrained greed of those who would be our masters.
You may willingly go into that dark night, but I won't.
I encourage my children to work hard in school and get a good education then select a career wisely or be ready to work their arse off to improve their lot in life as a business owner. I will also warn them that if they choose not to go that direction and work as a laborer that has a low demand skill set with lower pay then they need not expect to be able to afford the nicer things in life for them or their family unless they very carefully manage their finances.
The biggest problem with unskilled trade Unions is they convince people that they should be making the same or better wages/benefits bolting the same two bars together over and over all day on an assembly line than someone who went to college or otherwise worked their way up to a higer paying job that demands a higher demand skill set.
Once globalization came in to full force in the late 80s and 90s, companies then had other alternatives than paying a factory line worker $30/hour with full benefits to run a machine all day and they took advantage. I would love nothing more than to see those jobs come back to the US, however the second the Unions start hanging around those jobs will be back in China. These people need to realize that the Unions they hold so dear were the catalyst for their jobs being moved to China in the first place.
As for skilled trades that are represented by Unions, I still have not had one Airline Pilot, Mechanic, Electrical Engineer, Teacher, etc. tell me why they feel they cannot compete in the workplace without the support of a Union. None have also bee able to explain why they have no problem with the Unions taking all that money out of their pockets and then going on all the lavish conferences and retreats then they get mad when the executives do the same thing with company money. Also, what about all the people that do not want to be in the Union but are forced to? Why should they not have a choice?
I wonder how many of these anti-union people sided with the players in the basketball lockout.
I don't know the conditions for this brake problem or how many vehicles are actually effected, but I will say that sometimes management over-rides production and/or quality issues in order to get the product out the door.
Are many line workers overpaid ? Sure, but the original contracts were written everyone was making a crap load of money so the companies didn't care paying it.
I wonder how many of these anti-union people sided with the players in the basketball lockout.
I don't know the conditions for this brake problem or how many vehicles are actually effected, but I will say that sometimes management over-rides production and/or quality issues in order to get the product out the door.
Are many line workers overpaid ? Sure, but the original contracts were written everyone was making a crap load of money so the companies didn't care paying it.
Don't watch or care about the NBA except for all the deadbeat dads who make a fortune but spend a fortune to avoid paying child support.
As for skilled trades that are represented by Unions, I still have not had one Airline Pilot, Mechanic, Electrical Engineer, Teacher, etc. tell me why they feel they cannot compete in the workplace without the support of a Union. None have also bee able to explain why they have no problem with the Unions taking all that money out of their pockets and then going on all the lavish conferences and retreats then they get mad when the executives do the same thing with company money.
I made more than 50% more than people doing the same work non union, retired at 55 and paid about 4% in dues. If you can convince me that wasn't in my interest I'll call you Aristotle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nc2sc778
Also, what about all the people that do not want to be in the Union but are forced to? Why should they not have a choice?
I'll give you a conservative's answer: they're free to find work elsewhere.
Irishtom's Laws of Wages and Economics
1. I'm overworked; you're overpaid.
2. My raise is the result of merit; yours is the result of greed.
3. My raise helps the economy; yours causes inflation.
4. My making more money helps me; your making more money harms you.
5. My job should be done in The United States; your job should be done in China.
6. What I say is good for me is also good for you. What you say is good for you is actually bad for you.
7. People value hard work until they have to pay for it.
8. When investors form organizations to further their economic interests it's God granted Free Enterprise. When workers form organizations to further their economic interests it's Godless Communism.
I made more than 50% more than people doing the same work non union, retired at 55 and paid about 4% in dues. If you can convince me that wasn't in my interest I'll call you Aristotle.
Well, I will have to admit it sure does sound like you did benefit from it and I honestly can't blame you for being happy about it. It is a good thing you retired when you did though, because the Union trend of people getting paid twice what the free market would pay is quickly coming to an end. It is just simple economics that when an airline has to pay it's pilots $190K per year they won't be able to compete with the Airline paying equally qualified pilots $120K per year. In areas where Unions are not politically entrenched in with the politicians and customers have a choice whether to use Union or Non Union Labor for say, electrical on a new building, the Union shop is going loose the bid most of the time, at least if they can't compete financially. Then guess what happens? That high paid pilot or electrician now don't have a job at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29
I'll give you a conservative's answer: they're free to find work elsewhere.
Nice try, it still does not answer the question- If a Teacher does not want a Union "helping them" why can they simply choose not to join the Union.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29
Irishtom's Laws of Wages and Economics
1. I'm overworked; you're overpaid.
2. My raise is the result of merit; yours is the result of greed.
3. My raise helps the economy; yours causes inflation.
4. My making more money helps me; your making more money harms you.
5. My job should be done in The United States; your job should be done in China.
6. What I say is good for me is also good for you. What you say is good for you is actually bad for you.
7. People value hard work until they have to pay for it.
8. When investors form organizations to further their economic interests it's God granted Free Enterprise. When workers form organizations to further their economic interests it's Godless Communism.
This is funny! At least you are honest about your views Irishtom, I will give you that!!
This discussion has taken quite a turn from Automobiles into politics.
That said, I wonder if the topic would be better served by moving the thread to Politics??
It's pretty hard to talk about Automobile Manufacturing and Unions not come in to the conversation, especially when the title of the thread is "UAW Screws up", wouldn't you agree?
Not sure it belongs in politics, at least at this point. A few references have been made but it certainly is not a full blown politics discussion. Union, yes, but again, look at the thread title.....
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