Diesel cars (not trucks) aren't so popular, why? (vehicle, sedan, SUV)

[1000Calories]

Recently I checked out a few articles on gas vs diesel because of a random brain thought. Diesel engines mostly come in trucks, but I'm not that big into them due to the loss in mpg for obvious reasons. Plus I don't tow anything. A sedan is what I like, but Volkswagen seems to be the only manufacturer to produce a diesel sedan in the states (that I know of). What gives? I wish there was a larger market for them. I drive a Honda 4 cylinder, gas mileage is good but not great. No complaints, but I think I would like to try something different in the future. I'm really in it for the MPG. I'm always driving around. Is it the emissions that's a big issue? Or the repairs?

[M3 Mitch]

Back in the 60's, Diesel engines lasted longer and required less frequent (although sometimes more elaborate) maintenance than gas engines, which had points to adjust and change, etc.


Fast forward to now, and you have gas engines that last as long as Diesels, and frequently only need a set of spark plugs every 60 to 100K miles.


Anymore to meet emissions regs Diesels have to use DEF, and are somewhat de-tuned from what they are in Europe.


Add to that, Diesel used to be cheaper per gallon than regular gas, now it is equal or more to premium gas.



When Diesels were sort of re-introduced in the 70s, GM in particular made some real duds, these gave the whole Diesel concept a bad name, unfairly of course but there you go.


Back in the late 80s I bought a MY 82 Diesel Audi 4000, used. That thing was not very fast, but it sure was slow. But it was a reasonably roomy car, good for road trips, that got almost 50 MPG on Diesel fuel that was, at the time, cheaper than gasoline. After a while I sold it to a friend, I was just tired of no damn power, I think it made like 45 or 50 HP. It's eventual replacement, an 82 VW Scirocco, gets about 40 MPG on premium no-ethanol gas (I have done some tuning) and can at least get out of its own way. A lot more engaging to drive, somewhat easier to work on.

[Brian_M]

It's mostly political, but has multiple aspects. Part is that during the gas crises of the 70's and 80's, the Big-3 tried to convert gas engines to diesel and they were terrible. All diesel cars were less refined back then, they were more noisy, smoked/stunk and availability was poor. None of that it true today though.


But the bigger part is political. The US has stricter diesel emissions than any other country. They were allowed to be put in place because there was virtually no push-back ~ the Big-3 didn't have ANY diesel cars (trucks are exempt from the emissions) planned, so it wasn't a big deal to them. Oil companies knew it'd cost them money to adjust refining. The public didn't care because of perspective.



I loved my 2001 Jetta diesel, put 300k trouble-free miles on it over 17 years. Wish I could have bought something similar in 2018.

[ColoGuy]

Truck drivers often buy diesel due to work capacity and towing power. Diesels produce more pulling torque. That is not needed with passenger cars.

[StealthRabbit]

I LUV my diesel cars (they are great in the mtns, if they have a Turbo). really FUN to drive (torque-y), in fact I just bought another one today (#35). <$200... runner / driver... 50+ MPG as it will get for next 20 yrs. If the car wears out... I will swap the diesel engine and tranny into a pristine Gas car with a bad engine. Takes ~ 8 hrs.
50 mpg helps too (as does 1250 miles between fill-ups)
FREE fuel helps too (JetA, Heating oil, Discarded motor oil, WVO, or 'home brew Bio-D)

since 1976 I have saved dino burners 40,000 gal! to waste on themselves.

Diesel cars (not trucks) aren't so popular, why?
For USA...
1) GM ruined USA diesel car perception (a few times) by trying to 'convert' gas engines to Diesel, and other BAD ideas...
2) Early IDI / non-turbo D's were noisy, smokey, and slow
3) USA enjoys VERY cheap fuel... so.. many other countries have many more diesels (due to economics) and... Diesel is 1/2 the petrol price in some countries (as it was in USA 30 yrs ago). Diesel is a Lower distillate than gas, cheaper to make, easier to transport.
4) CARB. California wrote their emissions specifically to discourage diesel (it can not pass without special measures, yet... ALL my diesels (30+) easily pass a dyno sniffer (and opacity) test) even 300k+ mile 'beater' diesel cars score < 10% of allowable emissions.
5) false worries of maint (OMG type diesel war stories (I have never experienced these issues, but I do all my own work)
6) CHEAP... Americans are ultra price sensitive... Why pay $1000 premium if car will last 3x as long and get 2x economy?
7)Fear... if it is NOT NORMAL... public schooled Americans cannot take the risk. They prefer to be TOLD what to do and PROTECTED by a benevolent leader to assure they are well cared for.

Different? How can you risk being different?

[bfrabel]

Originally Posted by 1000Calories

A sedan is what I like, but Volkswagen seems to be the only manufacturer to produce a diesel sedan in the states (that I know of). What gives?

Nope, Volkswagen does not sell diesels in the USA anymore. Your options for a new diesel car in the USA come from BMW, Jaguar, and Chevrolet of all companies. Yep, Chevy actually makes a diesel version of the Cruze. It's a very low volume seller and I doubt it will last much longer, so if you want one you better hurry up and find one. I was actually considering getting one, but the $5000 extra for that diesel engine was a little too much for me to deal with. Also knowing that it comes with the extra complexity of the required emissions stuff (such as the need for "diesel exhaust fluid") didn't help matters.

I used to own a 1980 VW Rabbit diesel as a much younger person. Despite it only having about 50 horsepower, it was a fun little car to drive around. Every time I drove it I felt like a race car driver just trying to keep up with the flow of traffic, constantly shifting that 4 speed while trying to eek out every last drop of power that I could get. It sounds stupid, but it actually was kind of fun.

I have a funny memory of me getting gas in that thing one time. I pulled up to a gas station that had their diesel pumps in a separate area that said "Trucks Only" above it. I ignored that sign, pulled up to a pump and started filling up with diesel. Then someone from the gasoline area yelled over to me "Hey, you know that's diesel, right?". I ignored him and kept pumping. Then another guy yelled out "Hey moron, that's diesel, you're going to wreck your car!". I just smiled and waved and tried to ignore them. Both guys got together and were both pointing and laughing at how dumb I was. That gas station is a different brand or whatever now, but I still think of that and laugh sometimes when I drive by.

[HappyRider]

The reasons to pick diesel over gas has approached zero. There are a few eccentrics who rave about driving them for 400,000 miles but nobody cares. Just about everything else breaks by then so what's the point.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by ColoGuy

Truck drivers often buy diesel due to work capacity and towing power. Diesels produce more pulling torque. That is not needed with passenger cars.

I know diesels used to known preferred for towing due to their power, but with modern gas engines in trucks, they come pretty close to the same output as a diesel.

When I was looking at trucks, and deciding on gas or diesel, everyone kept telling me how long diesel engines last, they said, take care of it, and you will see 500K no problems. so I looked around at used diesels and generally found they get a little more life than gas engines, but not much, the most mileage I saw on a pick truck diesel was around 320K, and it was due for some major engine and transmission work, so it really didnt seem worth it to me going with the diesel.

Plus, they are much more expensive to maintain versus a gas engine.

[eddiehaskell]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

I know diesels used to known preferred for towing due to their power, but with modern gas engines in trucks, they come pretty close to the same output as a diesel.

When I was looking at trucks, and deciding on gas or diesel, everyone kept telling me how long diesel engines last, they said, take care of it, and you will see 500K no problems. so I looked around at used diesels and generally found they get a little more life than gas engines, but not much, the most mileage I saw on a pick truck diesel was around 320K, and it was due for some major engine and transmission work, so it really didnt seem worth it to me going with the diesel.

Plus, they are much more expensive to maintain versus a gas engine.

Seems like for the added cost of a diesel truck one could simply replace the drivetrain in a gasser at 200k. Odds are most won’t keep a vehicle much longer than 200k.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by HappyRider

The reasons to pick diesel over gas has approached zero. ...

Pickups / 1T...
My gassers can't compete... YMMV - but... gassers might work OK for many 'recreational' truck users. Hauling a 5000# boat or RV or horse trailer

for me...(diesel pickup benefit)
Free fuel
Strong towing (I scale at 30,000# daily, a gasser could not survive more than a few seasons of that load.)
Economy 18 -22 mpg empty (8800# 4x4 dually) 10- 12 mpg towing 30,000# GCVW
Longevity... 400k would be a 'young' truck
Cheap maint - fresh filters annually
Dependable (especially in demanding climates and terrain)
Can sit 3-5 yrs and fire up and work like a horse.
I haven't had to pay a premium for my used diesel trucks.

Most of the world gets Diesel HiLux (insurgent's vehicle of choice). They haul AMAZING loads!


Cars... find out for yourself! be sure to rent a diesel car when in Europe or Oceania, they are a lot of fun to drive, very economical (when you are spending <$100 instead of $200 / day on fuel).
You will find many varieties, in UK, I had Toyota Diesels that looked like a Prius, Subaru Diesels, in Asia, Hyundai has a huge market share in Diesel taxis (very economical) https://www.drivespark.com/four-whee...42-026111.html

Lots of small diesel cars towing 'caravans' (Travel trailers) all over the world (except USA)

Friends in USA with BMW Diesels (sedans to SUV's) really are happy with them (and dislike their weak gasser loaners)

Evil VW owners have just a few weeks left to sell their's back. (3) friends have sold theirs back to VW for ~$28k (with 60 - 85k miles) and rebuying a 'fixed' version for $16k - $20k, with only 15k miles.

If you don't drive a lot, OR if you think you will get bored with owning the same car for 20+ yrs, you might prefer a 'throw-away' gasser.