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Old 02-06-2012, 05:46 PM
 
377 posts, read 574,597 times
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It's very difficult to compare the Hyundais of yore to the ones that have been made in the past few years (pre-updated Sonata). Back in 2008 I was doing a little work a logistics company and met up with a potential client who worked with Honda as a third-party parts supplier. He started discussing with us how Honda was trying to get back up to par with Hyundai. I of course thought I heard him wrong and corrected him, but he assured me, no Honda. He then said told me that Hyundai had changed their engines along with a few other things and that's why 1) you see more Hyundai tractor-trailers on the road, and that there's a reason they now have this 10 year, 10,000 mile warranty. Note he did NO work for Hyundai, this was the information he was getting from Honda. Before that day there was no way I would have ever thought to own a Hyundai, and the ones I'd seen from the 90's/early 2000's were disgusting.

Two years later I was researching my next vehicle. I wanted an SUV if I was going to trade in the Jeep and after doing a few months of research/comparisons with Hondas/Toyota/Chevy/etc. I settled on the Tucson. Both under the hood and stylewise the Tucson stood out. Then I threw in the Sonata and for the first time since 1997 I'm driving a car. I love it. We'll see how it is 10/15 years from now, if I keep it that long, but it's pretty reliable for me and I drive A LOT.
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,790 posts, read 12,639,398 times
Reputation: 10007
Because in a sense, they still are buying engines from Mitsubishi, and vice versa. They both invested into a JV that produces engines for both companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I don't see how Hyundai's V6 is a copy of the VQ.
Its just a rumor. I remember reading about it a tuner column when the writer was asked if the current V6 was based on Mitsubishi's 6G75 which it is not. And the reply was that it was a copy of the VQ, maybe not an exact clone, but there were many similarities. I'll try to lay my hands on it and see what those similarities are.

It was also odd that while building a drift car, and I'm not saying this proof of anything, just FWIW, that Rhys Millen would use a built Nissan VQ in his Hyundai drift car, before switching over to a Lambda.

Rhys Millen Hyundai Genesis Coupe Drift Car Gets Lambda Engine
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:29 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,996 posts, read 13,290,022 times
Reputation: 4005
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnownUnknown View Post
Why are people mentioning BMW's and Infinit's. Look at a lot of Hyundai reliability talk, and a lot of it says it's on par with Honda and Toyota. In that case of Hyundai, that would be a MONUMENTAL leap. I never said they weren't getting better, just that I seriously doubt that they are suddenly the best, and there is no data from the early adopters to say oh yea, their cars are good now.
The comments in this same thread from people who actually own the car back the fact that Hyundai makes great cars. The fact that you don't like it or don't agree is irrelevant as you have no first hand experience with modern Hyundais. We've got facts versus guess work and which one do you think is more important?
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:10 PM
 
809 posts, read 1,455,428 times
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Who said I didn't like Hyundai's? I said there isn't enough data to back up this talk of their reliability being the same as companys whose cars go over a decade and 100k miles+ without any issues.

Maybe that is the case with the brand new new ones, but even 2/3 years ago, the data proves otherwise.

You have no facts, just anecdotal evidence. As In, "Well my car represents the hundreds of thousands of other cars". No, it doesn't. Going by that logic, everything ever made is perfect, because you'll always have someone who purchased a defective product, but didn't actually experience any issues with it themselves, but that doesn't speak for the product line as a whole.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Columbia, California
6,662 posts, read 25,340,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepchic View Post
It's very difficult to compare the Hyundais of yore to the ones that have been made in the past few years.
No. It is very easy to compare apples to apples.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 24,618,407 times
Reputation: 9173
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnownUnknown View Post
Who said I didn't like Hyundai's? I said there isn't enough data to back up this talk of their reliability being the same as companys whose cars go over a decade and 100k miles+ without any issues.

Maybe that is the case with the brand new new ones, but even 2/3 years ago, the data proves otherwise.

You have no facts, just anecdotal evidence. As In, "Well my car represents the hundreds of thousands of other cars". No, it doesn't. Going by that logic, everything ever made is perfect, because you'll always have someone who purchased a defective product, but didn't actually experience any issues with it themselves, but that doesn't speak for the product line as a whole.
What data are you citing?
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:10 AM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,507,040 times
Reputation: 14278
Quote:
He then said told me that Hyundai had changed their engines along with a few other things and that's why 1) you see more Hyundai tractor-trailers on the road
What Hyundai tractors? Hyundai sold commercial trucks in the US under the "Bering" name for exactly 2 years. They sold fewer then a couple thousand units and NONE of them were powered by Hyundai motors, they were powered by Detroits, Cats and Cummins engines depending on model and were backed up with either Allison or Eaton transmissions. Hyundai backed out of the venture and then got in bed with Daimler (owner of Freightliner) to produce trucks in South Korea. That was also an aborted venture.

Even if it was true, that's like saying that a 2000 Dodge Avenger built during the DaimlerChrysler days is a great car because you see so many Freightliner trucks on the road.

What you do see more of on the road are Hyundai trailers under the Hyundai Translead brand. Hyundai is one of the worlds largest producers of trailers and cargo containers (ship and rail). They have been making good inroads to the US trailer market since the 1990's and are currently the 5th largest manufacturer, a position they have held since 2003.

Quote:
and that there's a reason they now have this 10 year, 10,000 mile warranty. Note he did NO work for Hyundai, this was the information he was getting from Honda.
They've had that warranty since 1999. They didn't do it because they were so confident in their manufacturing and reliability, they did it as a marketing gimmick with carfully formed exclusions and limitations. It's not a bad warranty, but it's not a great one either. It is also not transferable, meaning only the original owner has it. In a country where the average new car is only kept by its owner for 4 years, it was a well calculated move to garner attention with "America's Best Warranty".

Sorry, but the "parts supplier guy who did work with Honda" was a little off.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:27 AM
 
Location: United States
2,497 posts, read 6,235,508 times
Reputation: 2219
I totally agree with the OP, sure Hyundai is making nice looking cars with all toys but in 20 years and 300k later will it be solid and reliable like many of the Hondas on the road? It's just like Chrysler, they make cars that people for some ungodly reason find appealing, but most are junk. Time will tell.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:36 PM
 
14,777 posts, read 34,507,040 times
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On the stats and why people are making the claims they are...

There is a strong correlation between the initial quality rankings as measured by places like JD Power and the long term dependability that is measured by the same sources.

Initial quality ranking is based on the first 90 days of ownership. Long term dependability is based on the first 3 years of ownership. No one measures 5+ years of ownership by brand, so real long term dependability is not something that is out there.

They quantify the measurement as problems per 100 vehicles. What they do NOT define to the public is what those issues were. This is the data that places like JD Power sell to the automotive companies; for many years this was also the whispered criticism from the domestics who would say over a beer that their mechanical reliability was just as good as the Japanese, but the Japanes beat them on overall build quality. For the public rankings, a problem could be a complaint about the stitching in the seat, or about a blown engine. They both count equally. This is why the rankings that are published to the public should be taken with a grain of salt. Additionally, they are always measuring the industry against the industry at each step, so there is no real baseline of what is or isn't "dependable" and that mark is constantly changing each year. In general, ALL cars have gotten more dependable over the past several years as a whole. The final piece would be that they don't always control for new/redesigned models vs. refreshed/carryover models. Basically, the staler a company is with its product lineup, the better its rankings tend to be.

To help, I compiled some of the rankings for the main 6 brands; Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Chevy, Ford and Chrysler. Please note that this is only for the marque listed, not a compilation of all marques under the brand, e.g. Hyundai does not include Kia, Toyota does not include Lexus and Scion, etc.

Here are the initial rankings (first 90 days):

Brand........2011......2010.......2009.......2008. ......2007
Hyundai.....108........102.........95..........114 ........125
Toyota.......101........117........101.........104 ........112
Honda........86..........95..........99..........1 10........108
Chevy........109........111.........103........113 .........129
Chrysler......110........122.........136........14 2.........151
Ford...........116........93..........102........1 12.........120
Industry.....107.........109.........108........11 8.........125

Here are the long term rankings (first three years), the year stated is the year the data was published, but would be for cars now three model years old, so 2011 data = 2008 car...

Brand........2011......2010.......2009.......2008. ......2007
Hyundai.....132........148.........161.........200 ........228
Toyota.......122.......128..........129........159 ........178
Honda........139.......132...........148........17 7.......169
Chevy........156........176..........185........23 9.......226
Chrysler......202.......166...........165........2 29.......249
Ford...........140........141..........159........ 204.......221
Industry.....151........155...........170........2 06.......216

It is pretty apparent from there that Hyundai has made major gains, along with the rest of the industry in improving overall quality. It is also obvious the strong link between 3 year dependability and initial quality. Look at the 2010 long term study and compare it to the 2007 initial, you can see the strong correlation.

Based on these numbers, here are the rankings by average over the past several years:

Initial:
1. Honda - 99.6
2. Toyota - 107
3. Ford - 108.6
4. Hyundai - 108.8
5. Chevy - 113
6. Chrysler - 132.2
* Industry = 113.4

Long Term:
1. Toyota - 143.2
2. Honda - 153
3. Ford - 173
4. Hyundai - 173.8
5. Chevy - 196.4
6. Chrysler - 202.2
* Industry = 179.6

Here are the rankings by improvement from 2007 to 2011...

Initial:
1. Chrysler - 41 points
2. Honda - 22 points
3. Chevy - 20 points
4. Hyundai - 17 points
5. Toyota - 11 points
6. Ford - 4 points
* Industry - 18 points

Long Term:
1. Hyundai - 96 points
2. Ford - 81 points
3. Chevy - 70 points
4. Toyota - 56 points
5. Chrysler - 47 points
6. Honda - 30 points
* Industry - 65 points

So, there's all the data, make of it what you will. In general, I would say that Hyundai has matched the industry average for initial and long term quality. The change over seems to have begun with the 2006 model year cars and has continued since then. That of course speaks NOTHING for the 5+ year long term reliability, but we don't know that absent anecdote for any other brand either. We also don't know the root causes of the problems reported.

Last edited by NJGOAT; 02-07-2012 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Vegas Baby!
36 posts, read 58,855 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by motordavid View Post
Gee, another 'this brand of car sucks compared to..."
If the OP thinks Hyundai is no good, don't buy one.

I try, not always successfully, to resist reading these threads: anecdotes and arm wrestles, imo.
And, I don't get the intent by the OP, other than inane pot stirring.
GL, mD

Probably owns a Honda or a Toyota (maybe both) and sees all of the latest and greatest autos coming out from Hyundai and Kia that spec as well or even better than the Toyota’s or Honda’s of the world but for thousands less! In essence he/she is trying to convince himself/herself that they did not over pay for that Toyota or Honda badge because their brand is "reliable".
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