How can anyone say Hyundai is as good as Honda or Toyota? (lease, buy)

[Icy Tea]

The smallest Jaguar took its styling cues from Hyundai so maybe the company has something going for it.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Icy Tea

The smallest Jaguar took its styling cues from Hyundai so maybe the company has something going for it.

Umm, what?

I think the 2010+ Kia Optima bites its styling off of the 2008+ Jaguar XF.

Which specific vehicle are you reffering to?

[RandyWatson13]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

Like Toyota puts its name on the Lexus or Nissan puts its name on the Infinity? Lets get real, a Lexus is only a high end Toyota.

What? A Lexus is a much better can than a Toyota much like an Audi is a much better VW.

Originally Posted by Tourian

That's an interesting way of looking at things, especially in a thread that compares Hyundai to Honda and Toyota who are also two brands "afraid" (your word) to put their logo on a Lexus or Acura.

Hyundai never was serious about a new brand b/c it would cost billions to launch. It also is no guarantee of success since only Lexus has succeeded where Acura/Inifniiti continue to struggle.

Originally Posted by Everest209

The Geneisis and Equus aren't different divisions under Hyundai like Lexus or Infiniti are under Toyota and Nissan. They are part of the Hyundai lineup, if Hyundai had more respect (which it will probably earn eventually) they would put their logo on the higher end cars.

Are you talking about them not putting the logo on the front on the car? It is on the trunk. Many owners do take off the Hyundai badge for the KDM market ones as they are embarrassed to say they own a Hyundai.


The XF clearly took its style from the GS.

http://cdn.lexusenthusiast.com/images/weblog/07-11-16-lexus-gs-vs-jaguar-xf.jpg (broken link)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Everest209

When Hyundai has enough respect as a brand that they aren't afraid to put their logo on their own high end cars, then we know they've reached the top.

Welp, I guess they've reached the top:

[RandyWatson13]

Originally Posted by Drover

Welp, I guess they've reached the top:

To be fair there is no badge up front

[Volpe Mar]

I want a new (2011+) Sonata; $15,000 isn't cutting it yet.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by KodeBlue

New Models and redesigns usually get the car of the year. It has nothing to do with the best.

That was my whole point. Another poster touted it is some kind of major award that usually went to "Honda or Toyota" as if getting the award was proof that Hyundai was now better then Honda and Toyota. I thought the complete list was rather telling as to the general pedigree of the cars selected.

Originally Posted by MustangEater82

Agreed... Look at that chart and you can see which cars were the new hot **** of the time.

I still take "magazine" opinions with a grain of salt as long as I see auto manufacture advertisements on the next page.

Absolutely, the awards are based on new or heavily redesigned cars that "set a new benchmark for their class or brand". It has nothing to do with whether or not they are good cars overall. They tend to be more about the "flavor of the month" then anything else.

Ditto on the magazine reviews. Until they decided the Elantra was the NACOTY, it was losing comparos to the Civic, Focus and Cruze. Now, it's suddenly the toast of the town.

[NJGOAT]

Originally Posted by RandyWatson13

To be fair there is no badge up front

Some of the confusion on the badging comes from the fact that Hyundai does not market the Genesis and Equus in Korea as "Hyundai" they are "Genesis" and "Equus", not really separate brands like Lexus is to Toyota, but they are treated as their own micro brand, partly necessitated by the fact that Hyundai has something like 75% market share in Korea, so they can afford a little GM-esque branding. Internationally Hyundai decided to sell them as the Hyundai Genesis and Hyundai Equus do to the issues/cost in creating separate dealer channels.

A lot of people and even dealers replace the "H" badges on US-spec Genesis and Equus with the appropriate Korean market badging. A quick google search will turn up hundreds of threads about people wanting to buy the badges. I see one Equus every morning and it has the winged horse badge on the rear, not the "H" and a guy in my development has a Genesis that he replaced the "H" on. That of course doesn't mean anything about Hyundai not wanting the badge on the car, they were happy to put it there in the US. However, you may be just as likely to see one without a "H" badge as you are to see one with it, the way they are getting swapped.

Korean Genesis:


Korean Equus:

[RandyWatson13]

Just came out today

[NJGOAT]

Randy, thanks for posting. Just for reference, that is the long term study, so the vehicles included would be from model year 2009.

Here is the updated stats based on what I posted earlier (post #39):

Brand........2012......2011......2010.......2009.. .....2008. ......2007
Hyundai.....125.........132........148.........161 .........200 ........228
Toyota......104.........122.......128..........129 ........159 ........178
Honda.......131.........139.......132..........148 .......177..........169
Chevy.......135.........156........176.........185 ........239..........226
Chrysler.....192.........202.......166..........16 5........229.........249
Ford..........124........140........141..........1 59........ 204........221
Industry.....132........151........155...........1 70........206........216

Based on average from 2007-2012, spanning MY 2004-2009:

1. Toyota - 136.6
2. Honda - 149.3
3. Ford - 164.8
4. Hyundai - 165.6
5. Chevy - 186.2
6. Chrysler - 200.5
* Industry = 171.6

One of the more interesting comparisons is looking at the 2009 initial to the 2012 long term and seeing the increase in issues. So, this would be the number of reported issues in model year 2009 cars at the 90 day mark and then again at the 3 year mark. Consider it a measure of overall long term reliability and expected future performance, or "stability":

Brand.........2012........2009.........Increase
Hyundai......125..........95............30
Toyota.......104..........101...........3
Honda........131..........99.............32
Chevy........135..........103............32
Chrysler......192..........136............56
Ford...........124..........102............22
Industry......132..........108............24

Ranked by manufacturer:

1. Toyota - 3
2. Ford - 22
3. Hyundai - 30
4. Chevy / Honda - 32
5. Chrysler - 56

I think that is actually a rather meaningful measure. The initial quality rankings are rather polluted by minor assembly issues, while the long term reports tend to contain more serious mechanical issues. In that vain, the best of these manufacturers is easily Toyota, followed by Ford with Hyundai, Chevy and Honda all performing similarly in that model year. Chrysler, is of course, horrible.

PS Would anyone be interested in me adding Nissan or any other brands to this?