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I agree, if the stock car calls for premium and you don't use it consistently you are damaging the internals.
I don't think its that simple. I only put 91 in my car but its turbo. Lower grade gas is acceptable in the non turbo BMW's but the ecu will lower engine output. I still say its safe.
If a car is calling for premium the stock spark tables are setup for 91 or 93 octane, sure there are knock sensors and knock retard to save the motor from excessive detonation but you really don't want to be riding on a fail safe constantly.
Sorry, but you'll never sell me on this. In older cars with limited timing and fuel curves and newer high performance engines pushing compression limits, yes. No way will a manufacture ride so fine a line and offer a warranty. The high octane recommendations are nothing more than optimizing performance with mileage ratings.
On standard passenger cars, Id like to see proof of any damage or failure as a direct result of lower octane fuel (87)when there were no noticeable signs of reduced performance ie; hard starts, predetination, running on, plug damage, etc.
Sorry, but you'll never sell me on this. In older cars with limited timing and fuel curves and newer high performance engines pushing compression limits, yes. No way will a manufacture ride so fine a line and offer a warranty. The high octane recommendations are nothing more than optimizing performance with mileage ratings.
On standard passenger cars, Id like to see proof of any damage or failure as a direct result of lower octane fuel (87)when there were no noticeable signs of reduced performance ie; hard starts, predetination, running on, plug damage, etc.
That's fine, like I said there are knock sensors, low octane tables, knock learn and knock retard for a reason, but they are all designed to help reduce damage to internals when low quality or octane fuel is used. Do you want to drive around constantly with the knock sensors picking up knock and pulling timing because of it? I guess if you are that hard up to save $0.20 a gallon then by all means go ahead and ride that failsafe out, I'd prefer to spend the extra $0.20 a gallon and have the car run the way it was designed to run and not have to rely on the knock sensors to compensate for your cheapness.
Perhaps things are different in the small motor/import/commuter car market but I drive, build and tune my own high performance domestic V8 vehicles and I can speak pretty certain on this subject.
That's fine, like I said there are knock sensors, low octane tables, knock learn and knock retard for a reason, but they are all designed to help reduce damage to internals when low quality or octane fuel is used. Do you want to drive around constantly with the knock sensors picking up knock and pulling timing because of it? I guess if you are that hard up to save $0.20 a gallon then by all means go ahead and ride that failsafe out, I'd prefer to spend the extra $0.20 a gallon and have the car run the way it was designed to run and not have to rely on the knock sensors to compensate for your cheapness.
Perhaps things are different in the small motor/import/commuter car market but I drive, build and tune my own high performance domestic V8 vehicles and I can speak pretty certain on this subject.
There's a big difference between your typical vehicle (whether a Honda or a BMW) and a tuned performance car. The tolerances on most factory cars are very wide and they are designed to run on both high grade and low grade fuel with the assumption that the higher octane fuel will produce more power and possibly better mileage. Even my turbo Genesis Coupe will run on low octane fuel from the factory however I'm running an aftermarket tune that will be dangerous with anything less than 91. I always run the highest grade I can get because I think the price difference is fairly trivial given the performance benefit however it is flat out wrong to say that it is dangerous to run a lower octane fuel in a factory car unless the manufacturer states otherwise. Even high performance domestic V8's like the SRT8 Hemi's will run on lower octane fuel without issue although you'll likely lose a good bit of power.
There's a big difference between your typical vehicle (whether a Honda or a BMW) and a tuned performance car. The tolerances on most factory cars are very wide and they are designed to run on both high grade and low grade fuel with the assumption that the higher octane fuel will produce more power and possibly better mileage. Even my turbo Genesis Coupe will run on low octane fuel from the factory however I'm running an aftermarket tune that will be dangerous with anything less than 91. I always run the highest grade I can get because I think the price difference is fairly trivial given the performance benefit however it is flat out wrong to say that it is dangerous to run a lower octane fuel in a factory car unless the manufacturer states otherwise. Even high performance domestic V8's like the SRT8 Hemi's will run on lower octane fuel without issue although you'll likely lose a good bit of power.
Right, they will run, but once again you are relying on the stock PCM to detect detonation via the knock sensor, relay that information back to the PCM and have it determine what degree of spark to pull out of the motor to stop detonation. Sure it works, it's not ideal and knock sensors fail.
That's fine, like I said there are knock sensors, low octane tables, knock learn and knock retard for a reason, but they are all designed to help reduce damage to internals when low quality or octane fuel is used. Do you want to drive around constantly with the knock sensors picking up knock and pulling timing because of it? I guess if you are that hard up to save $0.20 a gallon then by all means go ahead and ride that failsafe out, I'd prefer to spend the extra $0.20 a gallon and have the car run the way it was designed to run and not have to rely on the knock sensors to compensate for your cheapness.
Perhaps things are different in the small motor/import/commuter car market but I drive, build and tune my own high performance domestic V8 vehicles and I can speak pretty certain on this subject.
But that is exactly how late model engine management systems work. Your not over using or leaning on any particular system.
As I stated previously, earlier engines and upper end performance engines are different. In your case where your modding engines to the outer limits of computer aided control I agree whole heartidly!
And finally, yes I do choose to be that cheap when I drive 110 miles per day and fill up roughly 2 times a week.
So one of my cars that I currently have is a 07 BMW 328i sedan V6. I want to trade it because of the high maintenance costs- I have no warranty and I don't like paying for premium gas anymore. I can get about $15k for trade in value for my BMW.
I'm looking for a 08 or newer V6 sedan that runs on regular unleaded 87 gas. Trying to stay around $22k. Want something reliable that is easy to do my own maintenance on.
Cars I have considered but decided against.
11-12 Dodge Charger- I didn't like the cheap plastic interior.
08-12 Cadillac CTS- Love the looks but it gets really bad gas mileage and very expensive.
Cars I am considering.
11-12 Hyundai Sonata 2.0Turbo SE or Limited.
11-12 Kia Optima 2.0T EX or SX.
09-12 Hyundai Genesis Sedan 3.8L V6
09-12 Ford Fusion SEL or Sport V6
08-12 Honda Accord
08-12 Toyota Camry
11-12 Nissan Altima V6
Any others you guys and gals can think of or own, that know they are good reliable cars?
What is the mileage on your 3-series? What gas mileage are you getting? Have any major repairs had to be done, in or out of warranty?
What is the mileage on your 3-series? What gas mileage are you getting? Have any major repairs had to be done, in or out of warranty?
Mileage is 66k Plus, Way out of warranty. Never had one since I bought it in 2010. Tired of paying $600 Plus every time I take it to BMW for regular maintenance. Gas mileage 15.5 mpg city to 26 hwy using 93 premium gas. Yes the mileage is that bad.
I bet the gas mileage is not bad enough for it to make economical sense to change cars. You do the math.
You are not likely to find anything that drives and feels as good as the BMW, but on the other hand, very unlikely to find something that costs as much to own either.
The Cadillac CTS is on consumer reports great choice for domestic cars. I have driven the Genesis and the Charger and both are great cars. The Genesis would probably be the more reliable.
The Accord, Camry, Fusion, Altima, Mazda 6 etc, are all in the same class/group and people argue to no end on which one looks better or drives better. At the end, they are point A to B basic sedans with good reliability. The rest is subjective. I drive a Camry myself, because when I was buying, I was not sure how long I will need the car, so resale was a concern and I also got a good deal on a CPO. It is boring, but then I have been there with the "exciting" repair bills on fun cars.
Well I had decided to trade for a used Genesis or Accord, but then the other day decided it would be cheaper just to repair my car and keep it. Until today when my Starter went out. So now I have to replace 2 RFT tires, Replace the Valve Cover Gasket, Oil Filter Housing Gasket, a Cup Holder, Get some dents PDR'ed and now replace the Starter.
If I do the work myself should cost about $800, if I go through BMW-$2455 with labor. I'm so fed up with this car and stuff breaking on it. I'm sure more stuff will break on it too since it seems to be every few months even though I rarely drive it. Maybe I should just trade it for 15k and get something newer with a warranty and cheaper parts and labor.
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