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Old 09-06-2012, 11:48 PM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,140,774 times
Reputation: 2264

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
He is correct. Rules of passing is that you may pass on the left (using a passing lane) but you never go over the speed limit to do so. And there is no "designated" passing lane on freeways/highways. So, that person is legally driving correctly on the road.
The driver is impeding traffic. In fact, several states, including Florida and Washington, have been more aggressively ticketing drivers doing precisely what you are saying. Shockingly, studies have demonstrated that rude drivers plopped in the passing lane create agitation in other drivers, and, thus more accidents. I know, shocking stuff.

Quote:
Yes, they learn to go the speed limit, because that is the law.
You are not the road nanny. If a police officer makes the judgment to pull someone over, that is his/her prerogative. It is not yours to take it upon yourself to enforce the speed limit on everyone else. Your mindset is, frankly, maddening in its self-absorption: "You will go the speed I want you to go." As most everyone not in your bubble knows, in most states you are allowed 5-7 miles per hour over on highways. It's perfectly safe, the cops drive at that speed and most people settle in comfortably. Then we apparently have you, Mr/Mrs Junior G-Man who is going to make sure we're all staying at the speed limit. I ince encountered a great piece of advice, I believe from Brock Yates at Car and Driver. He said that his main duty as a driver was to stay out of the way of everyone else. My father taught me essentially the same thing. We've gotten away from this as we've gotten more self-absorbed. "Don't you tell me to get out of the left lane! Why do you need to go that fast, anyways? I like my speed best so you will drive at my speed."


If you are talking about those that never go through Drivers ed, then that would be correct. Those that go through Drivers ed, do learn these things, but unless reinforced they forget.


This is what I learned, you accelerate to match the speed of the traffic you are merging with.

Slower is safer, in certain situations. You really need to stop making blanket statements.

Slower in a school zone or construction zone, is safer. Slower approach on a freeway on ramp is not.

Again, blanket statement. Drivers ED do teach things. BUT drivers ed is not REQUIRED for everyone. Minors who want to get their license in many states are REQUIRED to take drivers ed, but once you're over 18, there is no requirement.


That is why I say: Drivers Ed for all (don't care how old you are), required to take a written and road test every 5-8 years in order to renew; required to take Drivers Ed Refresh course every 10 years (no matter if its time to renew or not); and for those over 70 years, required to take a written and road test every year.[/quote]
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Maine
1,151 posts, read 2,025,072 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I have honestly never seen that anywhere. I don't drive in big cities. Is that where you usually see it?
Well, Belfast, ME (population somewhere under 7,000 people) has a light like that (U.S. Route 1 and State Route 52). I don't know as I'd call it a big city, but it is a city, nonetheless.

You've never seen a traffic light like this? (see link: http://jax-cdn.com/sites/default/fil...LightArrow.jpg )

Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear
I once encountered a great piece of advice, I believe from Brock Yates at Car and Driver. He said that his main duty as a driver was to stay out of the way of everyone else. My father taught me essentially the same thing.
Agree with that 100%
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:32 AM
 
7,541 posts, read 6,249,714 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
The driver is impeding traffic.
No he isn't. If traffic is going the speed limit, he/she is not impeding anything. Please check the passing laws in your state. you'll find that you cannot go over the speed limit while passing.

Quote:
In fact, several states, including Florida and Washington, have been more aggressively ticketing drivers doing precisely what you are saying.
Ticketing is one thing. Traffic court to successfully contest the ticket is another. Do you have the statistics on how many of those tickets were nulled when the person went to court to argue that the law says that passing cannot exceed the speed limit?

Quote:
Shockingly, studies have demonstrated that rude drivers plopped in the passing lane create agitation in other drivers, and, thus more accidents. I know, shocking stuff.
still not the fault of the driver who is obeying the law. The onus of the agitation is on the person who is agitated. If you follow the law, there is no reason to get agitated.

If you are in a rush, then plan better so you leave earlier.

Quote:
You are not the road nanny.
Never said I was.

Quote:
If a police officer makes the judgment to pull someone over, that is his/her prerogative.
Yes it is. and I have a family member who is a police officer He doesn't pull someone over who is following the speed limit.

Quote:
It is not yours to take it upon yourself to enforce the speed limit on everyone else.
And you can't make me go faster than the posted speed limit

Quote:
Your mindset is, frankly, maddening in its self-absorption: "You will go the speed I want you to go."
Wrong. I will go the speed that says I legally can. Don't like that? Then get the laws changed so that the speed limit is higher. I'm not making you do anything. YOU want to break the law, then go right ahead. Break the speed limit, make yourself look like the fool, and I'll laugh at your silly behind sitting on the shoulder when a cop pulls you over for doing so.

My mindset is not self-absorption. Its about following what the law says. I admit that I break the speed limit, and I know the consequence of doing so. So if i get pulled over for doing so, I'm not going to tell the cop "sorry, I didn't know how fast i was going". I know what I did and will accept responsibility for it.

But no person is going to force me to go faster just so they can pass me.

If you are in a rush, then plan better so you leave earlier.

Quote:
As most everyone not in your bubble knows, in most states you are allowed 5-7 miles per hour over on highways.
Actually, there is no allowance. Its all to the cops discretion. You can get a cop that will pull you over for simply going 3 mph, but the acceptance is 5 mph over because of mis-calibrations from the drivers speedometer to whatever instrument they are using to catch speeders (whether laser, radar, or air enforcement).

Quote:
It's perfectly safe, the cops drive at that speed and most people settle in comfortably.
You may think so, but even a 5mph difference can mean a whole lot of difference in an car accident or to a pedestrian

I was hit in a crosswalk by a car going 25 mph. I was hurt, breaking my collar bone in the process.

I had an accident on my moped going 30 mph (cut off by a car trying to beat me to a driveway). That impact destroyed by moped, and I ended up breaking my leg in two places.


Quote:
Then we apparently have you, Mr/Mrs Junior G-Man who is going to make sure we're all staying at the speed limit.
I'm not making you do anything, mr. holier than thou. I'm just correcting your misinformation that you are providing.

The law for passing in many states is that you MAY not go faster than the posted speed limit. There are only a few exceptions, and that has to do with the TYPE of road or highway that you are on and they actually put a limit on how much above the speed limit you can go to complete the pass. (example: Minnesota allows you to go 10 mph above the speed limit when passing if you are on a two-lane highway having one lane for each direction of travel, and that highway has a posted speed limit that is equal to or higher than 55 miles per hour, and is overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction of travel.)


sorry if you don't like the truth, but you can't say your opinion is fact when it's not. It's your opin


Quote:
I ince encountered a great piece of advice, I believe from Brock Yates at Car and Driver. He said that his main duty as a driver was to stay out of the way of everyone else.
Yes, you should. But you shouldn't be forced to violate the law in order to do so. If you get into an accident, it will the person who broke the law who will be a fault.

Quote:
My father taught me essentially the same thing.
My Drivers Ed taught me: Defensive driving, that you look out for yourself. and get yourself out of danger whenever possible. Signal your intentions, and allow enough room for reaction as well as stopping time, should you need to do so. Oh, and that you follow the posted speed limit to reduce your risk while driving.

Quote:
We've gotten away from this as we've gotten more self-absorbed.
Since there is no designated passing lanes on most highways and freeways (official designated passing lanes are actually marked, and there are signs that tell you when you can pass), the speed limit is the SAME across all lanes on multi-lane or even only two lane highways. Its not being self absorbed. Its about following the law because those speed limits are put there for many reasons. One of them that its safer.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,359,288 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.

#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?
There is a four-lane one-way road in Anchorage where the two most left lanes end, and must turn left. After the intersection that four-lane one-way road becomes a two-lane two-way road. Those approaching the intersection on the right, must turn right, but not on a red light. The reason is because those vehicles coming the other way have a green left-turn light. Not a very good road design, I admit, but functional if no one attempts to make a right turn against a red light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.
This is primarily to prevent vehicles from blocking traffic by moving into the intersection only to find they can move no further. If an intersection has a history of being blocked, then a no left turn without a green arrow will ensure that does not happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...
A lot of Stop signs are the result of neighborhoods or communities petitioning for them. They slow down the traffic's ability to speed through neighborhoods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.
There is usually a reason behind four-way stops, other than to impede traffic. Perhaps there was a serious accident at that intersection and someone got hurt. Or there may be political motivations.

Roundabouts is an east coast/European thing. They are only very rarely found west of the Mississippi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
#5. The national 55 mph speed limit. Thankfully, it is no longer in effect. Probably the most oft-broken law in the history of man. Good riddance to that law.

</end rant>
They still are not what they were originally. Before 1972 the speed limit in Montana, for example, was "Safe & Sane." In California the speed limit on all the freeways was 75 mph.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:01 AM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
6,193 posts, read 5,350,246 times
Reputation: 3058
Dumb things on US Roads are:

Drivers that break traffic laws.

'nuff said.

Except - I drive 55 on every local freeway. Saves me fuel costs.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:55 AM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,140,774 times
Reputation: 2264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
No he isn't. If traffic is going the speed limit, he/she is not impeding anything. Please check the passing laws in your state. you'll find that you cannot go over the speed limit while passing.
You need to consult the definition of "impeding," and yes, cops have begun to hand out tickets to people who are planted in the passing lane impeding traffic. I don't think I have access to such statistics. Would you be satisfied with the comments of a police officer who regularly tickets the rude driver whom I'm referencing?

Quote:
still not the fault of the driver who is obeying the law. The onus of the agitation is on the person who is agitated. If you follow the law, there is no reason to get agitated.
Marvelous logic. It's also legal for me to walk along busy sidewalks with my partner in an extremely slow fashion, two-wide, slowing everyone else because I think it's dangerous for anyone to jog or move quickly. After all, they might run down a small child. Therefore, when people become agitated at our behavior, it's their fault, not mine.[/quote]

Quote:
If you are in a rush, then plan better so you leave earlier.
You are a caricature. I was about to lampoon the rude road nanny in an earlier post by quoting precisely this response you've just stated that I've heard before from road nannies. Too funny.


Quote:
And you can't make me go faster than the posted speed limit
An illuminating comment, to say the least. You have no problem becoming the self-appointed road nanny who will sit in the passing lane slowing down those who wish to go faster than you, yet you demand that others not influence your speed. Of course, no one can force you to go faster. Unfortunately, anyone can force anyone else to go slower. And many of you are bound and determined to do that.[/quote]

Quote:
Wrong. I will go the speed that says I legally can. Don't like that? Then get the laws changed so that the speed limit is higher. I'm not making you do anything. YOU want to break the law, then go right ahead. Break the speed limit, make yourself look like the fool, and I'll laugh at your silly behind sitting on the shoulder when a cop pulls you over for doing so.

My mindset is not self-absorption. Its about following what the law says. I admit that I break the speed limit, and I know the consequence of doing so. So if i get pulled over for doing so, I'm not going to tell the cop "sorry, I didn't know how fast i was going". I know what I did and will accept responsibility for it.
It is precisely a self-absorbed, rude mindset. Observe your demands above. If you purposely impede others, preventing them from going the speed they wish to go, you are assuming the role of road nanny. Unless you are a cop, you have no authority to act in this way. People who do such things have trouble accepting that others behave in ways they do not like and they cannot control.

Quote:
But no person is going to force me to go faster just so they can pass me.
Again, no one can force you to go faster. Unfortunately, you can force someone to go slower. Based upon everything you have posted, you do believe you have the authority to enforce speeding laws.

Actually, there is no allowance. Its all to the cops discretion. You can get a cop that will pull you over for simply going 3 mph, but the acceptance is 5 mph over because of mis-calibrations from the drivers speedometer to whatever instrument they are using to catch speeders (whether laser, radar, or air enforcement).

Quote:
You may think so, but even a 5mph difference can mean a whole lot of difference in an car accident or to a pedestrian
Ah, then I take it you voluntarily drive at the minimum allowed speeds on highways to be safer, correct? And I take it you voluntarily drive slower within cities, as well, correct?

Quote:
I was hit in a crosswalk by a car going 25 mph. I was hurt, breaking my collar bone in the process.
As have I. It's again illuminating how each of reacted to this. I do not assume that since I was struck, it now my duty to police the roads, enforcing speed limits by deliberately forcing others to drive the speed I want them to drive.

Quote:
My Drivers Ed taught me: Defensive driving, that you look out for yourself. and get yourself out of danger whenever possible. Signal your intentions, and allow enough room for reaction as well as stopping time, should you need to do so. Oh, and that you follow the posted speed limit to reduce your risk while driving.
Given your comments, I would not be surprised if you are a driver's ed instructor.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Maine
1,151 posts, read 2,025,072 times
Reputation: 1848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
No he isn't. If traffic is going the speed limit, he/she is not impeding anything. Please check the passing laws in your state. you'll find that you cannot go over the speed limit while passing.

Ticketing is one thing. Traffic court to successfully contest the ticket is another. Do you have the statistics on how many of those tickets were nulled when the person went to court to argue that the law says that passing cannot exceed the speed limit?
Title 29-A,§2052 of the Maine Revised Statutes:
Quote:
6. Ways with speed limit of 65 or more miles per hour. An operator driving on a limited-access way with a speed limit of 65 or more miles per hour is restricted in ordinary operation to the right-hand lane and may use adjacent lanes for overtaking and passing another vehicle, but must return to the right-hand lane at the earliest opportunity. This requirement does not apply to an authorized emergency vehicle, or to a vehicle otherwise directed by posted signs, a law enforcement officer or a highway maintenance crew.
In short, if you are driving on a freeway here, you are not allowed in the left lane unless you are passing someone. Pacing them side by side is not passing. In that case, if you are unwilling to go faster to pass, then slow down and get in behind the guy! Driving side by side, blocking others is not only rude, but riding in someones blind spot is far more dangerous than speeding!

I always thought "keep right except to pass" was a fairly universal rule of freeway etiquette.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,810 posts, read 26,318,881 times
Reputation: 25686
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
I suppose this counts as "other controversies," So I'll post this here. This is my opinion on things that I consider stupid on our roads here.

#1. This has to be any intersection marked with a "no right turn on red" restriction. If nothing is coming to my left, then why the shouldn't I be able to turn right?

#2. No left turn without green arrow. Seriously, what's wrong with the standard left-turn go on arrow, yield on plain green rule. I could understand if there were a visibility issue, but that isn't that often the case. Let's just create another reason to make people sit still and wait for the invisible man.

#3. Stop signs placed everywhere, even when visibility is clear. Stop signs should only be used if there is some form of obstacle to vision. Yield perfectly appropriate if there is a clear line of sight. It's like we have a fetish for wearing out brake pads in this country to stop when there isn't any reason to. Does whether the car settles back in its suspension (the definition of a complete stop) really have anything to do with safety, or is it just another excuse to write tickets. This leads to #4...

#4. The four-way stop. Yes, I understand the rules. I just feel that it is rather stupid to make all roads come to a complete stop. If traffic is light enough that all roads can stop, then it is light enough to give one road the right of way over the other. If traffic is truly balanced in all directions, a roundabout would work.

#5. The national 55 mph speed limit. Thankfully, it is no longer in effect. Probably the most oft-broken law in the history of man. Good riddance to that law.

</end rant>
Most actually exist for one reason only...revenue. They are laws that are meant to be broken. Gotta justify and pay for our huge police forces somehow.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,810 posts, read 26,318,881 times
Reputation: 25686
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoastalMaineiac View Post
Title 29-A,§2052 of the Maine Revised Statutes:
In short, if you are driving on a freeway here, you are not allowed in the left lane unless you are passing someone. Pacing them side by side is not passing. In that case, if you are unwilling to go faster to pass, then slow down and get in behind the guy! Driving side by side, blocking others is not only rude, but riding in someones blind spot is far more dangerous than speeding!

I always thought "keep right except to pass" was a fairly universal rule of freeway etiquette.
It's the law, common sense and common courtsey. Yet far too many people are too stupid to operate a vehicle in a safe, responsible, respectful manner. They feel they have the "right" to hold others to their level of incompetence.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,999 posts, read 4,122,162 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
It's the law, common sense and common courtsey. Yet far too many people are too stupid to operate a vehicle in a safe, responsible, respectful manner. They feel they have the "right" to hold others to their level of incompetence.
Agree! I drive our motorhome and inevitabely I get two kinds of drivers around me.. The one that sits on my back corner in the blind spot for miles and miles... Then I'm the one who usually has to adjust my speed so the idiot will finally pass me. Mind you, I try to stay a couple miles below the posted speed limit in the right lane at all times so faster traffic can pass me easily. Or.. the guy who passes me like I'm setting still, cuts me off and then slams on his breaks in front of me because God forbid I might slow him down by 1 minute. I do however get a kick out of then blowing the big freakin air horn and seeing his eyes in his rear-view mirror when he realizes I can't stop this thing on a dime and the next time he does it, he'll end up with my living area in his back seat....
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