U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-11-2012, 06:55 AM
 
Location: SoCal
1,527 posts, read 3,408,524 times
Reputation: 1153

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathseeker View Post
I can't see Toyota's 2GR V6 powering a UPS truck. The Ford 300 six, on the other hand can be found in many of Big Brown's trucks.
In Australia Ford still makes the Barra 4.0L I-6

But the 3.5L 2GR-FSE V6 from Toyota is a superior product..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-11-2012, 06:59 AM
 
Location: SoCal
1,527 posts, read 3,408,524 times
Reputation: 1153
Ford 4.0L straight six



Toyota's 3.5L 2GR-FSE V6





Clearly superior..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 52,373,093 times
Reputation: 24652
Default Working on these engines

I would not want to have to work on these engines. Just from the pictures there must be a couple of hours work just getting to the engine. My mechanic friend says that one type of Ford V-8 requires about 8 hours + to change spark plugs because the originals sieze in the heads and have to be destroyed before they can be completely removed. A special took kit is required. That is poor design.

At the other end was changing plugs on an old Jaguar six or a Toyota hemi four.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
5,229 posts, read 12,196,017 times
Reputation: 4846
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I would not want to have to work on these engines. Just from the pictures there must be a couple of hours work just getting to the engine. My mechanic friend says that one type of Ford V-8 requires about 8 hours + to change spark plugs because the originals sieze in the heads and have to be destroyed before they can be completely removed. A special took kit is required. That is poor design.
The 2 piece spark plug design that is bad on the 4.6 liter V8s has nothing to do with it being a V8 or not. The plugs are easy to get to. They are just crap spark plugs.

Quote:
At the other end was changing plugs on an old Jaguar six or a Toyota hemi four.
Or a typical domestic pushrod V8 where spark plugs were quite easy to get to. My BMW DOHC V8 was also easy to change spark plugs on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 09:20 AM
 
3,914 posts, read 4,056,882 times
Reputation: 1272
Because of the geometry, V6 engines will vibrate and the most common way to address it is to add balance shafts to the engine. It's a complication and compromise traded for space savings.

BMW still puts I-6 engines in it's vehicles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Prosper
6,257 posts, read 13,339,165 times
Reputation: 9419
A lot of manufacturers (Japanese) jumped on the V6 bandwagon because they had designed cars that were front wheel drive, with I4 engines. When they needed more power, they simply couldn't fit an I6 inside the engine bay to mate it up to a front mounted transaxle. So, the V6 was the only option really, as a flat six would be too wide.

As others have said, the I6 is inherently balanced, and a V6 is not. But with modern production techniques, it's not really an issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 10:36 AM
 
11,254 posts, read 44,599,396 times
Reputation: 15102
[quote=TrapperL;27290712]The most trouble free, smoothest engine design is the flat or 180 degree engine like the old Volkswagen engines. They require little to no balancing and have zero harmonics naturally. (snip)

Not quite ... the primary balance forces start at almost zero with a flat engine, but the secondary forces prevail as the engine RPM climb.

The better configuration is a 90 degree, where the primary forces aren't quite as balanced out as the flat engine, but the secondary forces start balancing out at higher RPM. While the idle isn't quite as perfectly smooth as can be achieved in a flat engine, the engine is smoother in it's operating ranges.

"trouble free" is dominated by the metallurgy and the design of modern engines. I doubt that you'd be able to make a case that a flat engine is superior to an in-line or a V-configured engine from any manufacturer of decent engines these days.

I point out that I'm the owner of all of these configurations in stationary, marine, automotive, trucking, agricultural equipment, motorcycles, and aviation applications ... and all have their appropriate design parameters where I expect and receive long trouble free engine service. I've overhauled every one of these types of engines and I haven't seen any particular advantage over another in durability and service lives. That includes gas, diesel, propane fueled engines.

I'd note that as smooth as the I-6 has been developed by BMW, it's not an especially durable/trouble free engine compared to many others in the industry. BMW has obviously worked out the balancing and crankshaft forces, but leaves a lot of other overall factors to be desired. I like their power delivery, but my last BMW 745i proved to be my last acquisition; I still have a number of 2002 models and I get more overall satisfaction out of these than any other model from this company ... adequate performance, and with a more aggressive cam and higher compression than stock, fun to drive.

There's so many engines of every configuration where access to the spark plugs is trivial, that it's not an issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 11:16 AM
 
3,965 posts, read 4,722,944 times
Reputation: 3659
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
Ford 4.0L straight six



Toyota's 3.5L 2GR-FSE V6





Clearly superior..
Uh no, the Barra straight six is a far superior engine. I've driven a Falcon down in Oz and the FPV F6 (the high powered turbo version). It would tear that car a new one. The torque is what wins races and that is where (at least particular matchup) the Barra straight six will win. I would say that the best mass produced V6 on the market is Nissan's VQ family of V6s. I would also say that BMW makes the best straight six as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Prosper
6,257 posts, read 13,339,165 times
Reputation: 9419
If you're talking about currently produced engines, I'd agree with you on the Nissan VQ engines, and BMW, but as far as best straight six period goes, I'd have to say Toyota has that won hands down. (Think Supra, Lexus, Soarer, etc, but they stopped making it.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-11-2012, 11:47 AM
 
3,965 posts, read 4,722,944 times
Reputation: 3659
I understand what you are saying and Nissan has had great straight six motors as well but BMW sets themselves apart because they didn't need forced induction to achieve great power. Also Toyota and Nissan are Japanese so JGTC culture kind of devolved into self imposed horsepower limits on the motors.

The BMW E46 M3 had a naturally aspirated 3.2L I6 putting out 333 hp and the CSL version put out 350 hp. BMW has always made great naturally aspirated straight sixes most notably from the M1 to the E28 and E34 M5 and the E36 (especially the ones outside of North America) and E46 M3. BMW, Toyota (slightly ahead of Nissan) then Nissan. I would still take an RB26DETT motor over a 2JZ-GTE any day though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top