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Old 12-06-2015, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Ohio
2,796 posts, read 1,526,907 times
Reputation: 1614

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vannort54 View Post
My brother had 5 semi trucks he would not shut them off in the winter because they are a pia to start when sitting when cold, even shooting starting fluid in the intake did not work all the time. The hotter a disel runs the better they peforms. Who ever said an idleing Diseal is bad is crazy. Go to any truck stop in the north in the winter and see if the truckers turn their trucks off. My brother had over 500,000 miles on his cat Diseal engine. So I guess his idleing did no damage to his Western Star.
Go to any Truck Stop and you will have rows of trucks idling all day/night long.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:46 PM
 
1 posts, read 260 times
Reputation: 15
Ask any engine rebuilder what they think about it...
Most have a warning in the documentation to not to let it idle for extended periods during break-in (called a soft break-in) or at any other time...

WHY???

When Idling a fully warmed up engine the oil pressure is at it's lowest point, so it is hard on the bearings...

Also many engines have oil jets that spray the underside of the pistons to keep the pistons cool and lubricate the wrist pins and they do not open until a specified pressure is reached at a higher RPM or there would not be enough pressure left to keep the bearings happy...

You will find that cars that idle more have greater instance of carbon build up on valves and pistons (remember the piston cooling oil jets)...

Aside from its effect on engine internals when sitting and idling there is reduced natural (road induced) air flow, even if you have an electric cooling fan it runs cyclically primarily to control and based on the Radiator temperature. The temperature in the engine compartment due to the exhaust manifold heat goes way over what is intended cooking all the plastic and rubber in the engine. With the right combination of problems you may even set your car on fire (Unlikely but not far fetched)...

Even the heat coming from the exhaust and catalytic converters under the car may be cooking the transmission and even electronics under the seats or carpets on modern cars.

YES IF YOU HAVE A WELL MAINTAINED CAR, MODERN OR ANTIQUE, YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
But you will have an increase in wear and tear on many things that can be avoided...
You may have premature break down and other problems that when they happen will not obviously be related but are...

Even some sort of tune up items are affected...
Spark plugs and oxygen sensors have time and mileage intervals for scheduled replacement, but a spark plug or sensor isn't directly affected by time just sitting there nor the movement of the vehicle down the road so how are these intervals calculated?
Answer; PROJECTED ENGINE HOURS = SOME PARTS HAVE ONLY SO MANY ENGINE HOURS OF LIFE IN THEM!
So they figure the average person driving the average speed, blah blah blah will put this many hours on there engine.

For goodness sake! HERE IS A NO BRAINIER;
If you change your oil every three months or three thousand miles and but you never turn the car off you just let it run in the garage 24/7 for three months of course the oil will break down and burn away and your house may burn down as well.

Lastly check your owners and maintenance manuals, I promise you will find a paragraph or line about what is termed "Severe Use" which includes stop and go and long idling followed by the statement that all service intervals be cut in half under those conditions. And yes Taxis and other commercially used vehicles do get severe use, and guess what check the warranty book, most manufacturers warranties are "Cut in Half" if there product is put to commercial use.

Bottom line is no matter what you do your car will eventually wear out or rot out from under you...
But there are things you can do to make it last longer as well as avoid unnecessary repairs.
One of them is DO NOT LET IT SIT AND IDLE FOR EXTENDED PERIODS IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED...

It is common sense...

Well I have no doubt that I will get a few jokers who will reply to my Professional Qualified Industry supported comments and try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about... This by the way is why Qualified professionals generally stay off the forums. But one of my customers sent me this link asking me to comment. So if you find what I have posted helpful then you are welcome, if you find you want to argue with me and take this all apart line by line you are probably and egomaniac and a or a sociopath and though you will by nature not be thankful for my diagnosis of your mental disorder, you to are welcome.

Last edited by RAGS German Auto; 04-23-2017 at 08:49 PM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Fort Walton, FL
1,803 posts, read 445,258 times
Reputation: 829
Looking at this topic more recently, I found this thread. There are some varying and comprehensive perspectives in this thread, good stuff.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:21 AM
 
Location: the coastal bend
3,928 posts, read 2,386,669 times
Reputation: 5255
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
My dad always told me not to let an engine idle more than a couple of minutes when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, that it would damage the engine. Was that true then and is it still true for late model cars to let an engine idle beyond a few minutes?
The only way prolonged idling can damage a gasoline-powered engine is if it overheats due to lack of air moving through the radiator due to, say, a defective fan clutch.


Diesels are a different story, especially the newer ones with EGR and DPF. If idling a diesel is necessary, raise the idle speed to keep cylinder temperatures up and avoid cylinder wash. Also, idling will result in more frequent regenerations of the DPF, increased DEF consumption, and will shorten the service life of the DPF before it has to be taken to the dealer to be "baked and blown."
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:23 AM
 
Location: the coastal bend
3,928 posts, read 2,386,669 times
Reputation: 5255
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMack View Post
Go to any Truck Stop and you will have rows of trucks idling all day/night long.
Not so much anymore.

The introduction of APUs, the cost of fuel, and the maintenance issues that idling creates for newer emissions engines have caused idling to fall into severe disfavor with most fleets.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:41 AM
 
852 posts, read 186,555 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by TapperCheck View Post
You are very wrong. How could idling possible harm the engine? Where did you get the idea it does?
Turn it off at lights? You are doing more damage stopping and starting and using more gas than idling ever would.

Correct you are putting more strain on the starter doing that, people today kill me they treat their cars like babies. Cars and pickups are machines mass produced on the assembly lines their ment to be driven. I've always let my car run for 10 min or longer in the winter to get defroster hot in my cars in the 70's, never had a problem. Just do the maintenance that's it then just drive. Also ever been to the hospital ER and seen the ambulance's their they are always running with nobody in them.
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:16 AM
 
Location: PSL
4,190 posts, read 773,152 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGS German Auto View Post
Ask any engine rebuilder what they think about it...
Most have a warning in the documentation to not to let it idle for extended periods during break-in (called a soft break-in) or at any other time...

WHY???

When Idling a fully warmed up engine the oil pressure is at it's lowest point, so it is hard on the bearings...

Also many engines have oil jets that spray the underside of the pistons to keep the pistons cool and lubricate the wrist pins and they do not open until a specified pressure is reached at a higher RPM or there would not be enough pressure left to keep the bearings happy...

You will find that cars that idle more have greater instance of carbon build up on valves and pistons (remember the piston cooling oil jets)...

Aside from its effect on engine internals when sitting and idling there is reduced natural (road induced) air flow, even if you have an electric cooling fan it runs cyclically primarily to control and based on the Radiator temperature. The temperature in the engine compartment due to the exhaust manifold heat goes way over what is intended cooking all the plastic and rubber in the engine. With the right combination of problems you may even set your car on fire (Unlikely but not far fetched)...

Even the heat coming from the exhaust and catalytic converters under the car may be cooking the transmission and even electronics under the seats or carpets on modern cars.

YES IF YOU HAVE A WELL MAINTAINED CAR, MODERN OR ANTIQUE, YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
But you will have an increase in wear and tear on many things that can be avoided...
You may have premature break down and other problems that when they happen will not obviously be related but are...

Even some sort of tune up items are affected...
Spark plugs and oxygen sensors have time and mileage intervals for scheduled replacement, but a spark plug or sensor isn't directly affected by time just sitting there nor the movement of the vehicle down the road so how are these intervals calculated?
Answer; PROJECTED ENGINE HOURS = SOME PARTS HAVE ONLY SO MANY ENGINE HOURS OF LIFE IN THEM!
So they figure the average person driving the average speed, blah blah blah will put this many hours on there engine.

For goodness sake! HERE IS A NO BRAINIER;
If you change your oil every three months or three thousand miles and but you never turn the car off you just let it run in the garage 24/7 for three months of course the oil will break down and burn away and your house may burn down as well.

Lastly check your owners and maintenance manuals, I promise you will find a paragraph or line about what is termed "Severe Use" which includes stop and go and long idling followed by the statement that all service intervals be cut in half under those conditions. And yes Taxis and other commercially used vehicles do get severe use, and guess what check the warranty book, most manufacturers warranties are "Cut in Half" if there product is put to commercial use.

Bottom line is no matter what you do your car will eventually wear out or rot out from under you...
But there are things you can do to make it last longer as well as avoid unnecessary repairs.
One of them is DO NOT LET IT SIT AND IDLE FOR EXTENDED PERIODS IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED...

It is common sense...

Well I have no doubt that I will get a few jokers who will reply to my Professional Qualified Industry supported comments and try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about... This by the way is why Qualified professionals generally stay off the forums. But one of my customers sent me this link asking me to comment. So if you find what I have posted helpful then you are welcome, if you find you want to argue with me and take this all apart line by line you are probably and egomaniac and a or a sociopath and though you will by nature not be thankful for my diagnosis of your mental disorder, you to are welcome.
If the oil pressure is at proper specs an engine should idle forever without harm... these aren't Harley twin cams buddy... if there's a loss in oil pressure at idle someone screwed up BIG time in the bearing department or have the wrong spring in the oil pressure regulator...

My small block dirt oval engines were making 48psi at a port drilled and tapped into the rear of the cam tunnel at idle. 48 psi at idle at the place with least pressure...
A standard small block that makes 30 or so at idle at the oil filter housing still isn't going hurt bearings...
Like I said. Harley twin cam different story bro...
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: PSL
4,190 posts, read 773,152 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
The only way prolonged idling can damage a gasoline-powered engine is if it overheats due to lack of air moving through the radiator due to, say, a defective fan clutch.


Diesels are a different story, especially the newer ones with EGR and DPF. If idling a diesel is necessary, raise the idle speed to keep cylinder temperatures up and avoid cylinder wash. Also, idling will result in more frequent regenerations of the DPF, increased DEF consumption, and will shorten the service life of the DPF before it has to be taken to the dealer to be "baked and blown."
Clogged and ruptured EGR coolers, clogged DPF, new diesels are meant to be driven and driven hard... it's the wanna be who buys an alternative to the mini van that have more issues than the pto driven dump body, septic pump, etc light throttle not getting the trashcan of doom up to temp with a passive regen... coked EGR valves and coolers...

They need to either draw EGR post after treatment system or just up the dosing of the DEF both EGR and reductant systems reduce N0X emissions...
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:56 AM
 
Location: The epicenter of everything wonderful
2,047 posts, read 1,488,995 times
Reputation: 3086
Actually, I know of one vehicle (engine) in particular that idling is an issue on. The 5.7L Dodge in the pursuit chargers are failing due to a lack of oil to the lifters. This is a known issue due to the idle time + harsh acceleration in the police environment.
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Old 05-30-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: PSL
4,190 posts, read 773,152 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rynldsbr View Post
Actually, I know of one vehicle (engine) in particular that idling is an issue on. The 5.7L Dodge in the pursuit chargers are failing due to a lack of oil to the lifters. This is a known issue due to the idle time + harsh acceleration in the police environment.
They had the chains snap or jump time and wreck valves too? Have a friend in a dodge dealer, did alot of rams challengers and a few chargers.

That's an easy fix depending on type of oil pump and pressure regulator.
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