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Old 05-30-2017, 12:23 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 1,473,033 times
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As an engineer I can tell you it gets expensive and complicated to try and design something that works well at every imaginable temperature. If 99% of the time the engine is just going to be at 200 degrees then just optimize the design for that. It can drive at cold temperature, but that doesn't mean it's optimized for driving cold. They know it'll cause more wear but not enough to spend money improving design life by 1%.
It's not optimized for idling either, but engines will spend more of their life idling than driving cold and are therefore optimized accordingly.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:28 PM
 
Location: The epicenter of everything wonderful
2,046 posts, read 1,480,694 times
Reputation: 3086
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
They had the chains snap or jump time and wreck valves too? Have a friend in a dodge dealer, did alot of rams challengers and a few chargers.

That's an easy fix depending on type of oil pump and pressure regulator.
The dealership fix is to replace lifters, valves only if necessary, put in a new cam and button it up. If we do it in-house we are sending the heads and doing the whole top end. Most commonly happening in the 110k - 130k range. If rebuild by a dealer they seem to last another 50-60k and then generally come unglued again.
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
4,923 posts, read 2,878,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAGS German Auto View Post
Ask any engine rebuilder what they think about it...
Most have a warning in the documentation to not to let it idle for extended periods during break-in (called a soft break-in) or at any other time...

WHY???

When Idling a fully warmed up engine the oil pressure is at it's lowest point, so it is hard on the bearings...

Also many engines have oil jets that spray the underside of the pistons to keep the pistons cool and lubricate the wrist pins and they do not open until a specified pressure is reached at a higher RPM or there would not be enough pressure left to keep the bearings happy...

You will find that cars that idle more have greater instance of carbon build up on valves and pistons (remember the piston cooling oil jets)...

Aside from its effect on engine internals when sitting and idling there is reduced natural (road induced) air flow, even if you have an electric cooling fan it runs cyclically primarily to control and based on the Radiator temperature. The temperature in the engine compartment due to the exhaust manifold heat goes way over what is intended cooking all the plastic and rubber in the engine. With the right combination of problems you may even set your car on fire (Unlikely but not far fetched)...

Even the heat coming from the exhaust and catalytic converters under the car may be cooking the transmission and even electronics under the seats or carpets on modern cars.

YES IF YOU HAVE A WELL MAINTAINED CAR, MODERN OR ANTIQUE, YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
But you will have an increase in wear and tear on many things that can be avoided...
You may have premature break down and other problems that when they happen will not obviously be related but are...

Even some sort of tune up items are affected...
Spark plugs and oxygen sensors have time and mileage intervals for scheduled replacement, but a spark plug or sensor isn't directly affected by time just sitting there nor the movement of the vehicle down the road so how are these intervals calculated?
Answer; PROJECTED ENGINE HOURS = SOME PARTS HAVE ONLY SO MANY ENGINE HOURS OF LIFE IN THEM!
So they figure the average person driving the average speed, blah blah blah will put this many hours on there engine.

For goodness sake! HERE IS A NO BRAINIER;
If you change your oil every three months or three thousand miles and but you never turn the car off you just let it run in the garage 24/7 for three months of course the oil will break down and burn away and your house may burn down as well.

Lastly check your owners and maintenance manuals, I promise you will find a paragraph or line about what is termed "Severe Use" which includes stop and go and long idling followed by the statement that all service intervals be cut in half under those conditions. And yes Taxis and other commercially used vehicles do get severe use, and guess what check the warranty book, most manufacturers warranties are "Cut in Half" if there product is put to commercial use.

Bottom line is no matter what you do your car will eventually wear out or rot out from under you...
But there are things you can do to make it last longer as well as avoid unnecessary repairs.
One of them is DO NOT LET IT SIT AND IDLE FOR EXTENDED PERIODS IF IT CAN BE AVOIDED...

It is common sense...

Well I have no doubt that I will get a few jokers who will reply to my Professional Qualified Industry supported comments and try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about... This by the way is why Qualified professionals generally stay off the forums. But one of my customers sent me this link asking me to comment. So if you find what I have posted helpful then you are welcome, if you find you want to argue with me and take this all apart line by line you are probably and egomaniac and a or a sociopath and though you will by nature not be thankful for my diagnosis of your mental disorder, you to are welcome.


So I did what you said.... and I called two acquaintances who operate two of the largest speed shops (engine rebuilders) in my area today at lunch just for giggles and asked if their break in period prohibits idling (I'm a diesel guy and already know the answer on the diesels, which is also no). The answer was a resounding no.


I also asked if idling a fully warmed up engine would be harmful due to lower oil pressure and thought at one point that I was hung up on. The response was that if the engine was built properly then the oil pressure at idle is sufficient enough to provide proper lubrication to all components. If the oil pressure is low enough at idle to cause damage, pull the motor and take it back to your builder and have them rebuild it, or take it to a qualified shop and have them correct the last builder's poor build.


But don't take my word for it. I mean, these guys have only been building some of the top drag car and street car engines for decades and are known nation wide for their work. I think I'd trust them over someone who thinks letting a vehicle idle will cook the underside of a car or potentially burn down a house.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
12,631 posts, read 13,392,406 times
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True. Any time an engine is on there's damage being done. Idling for 1:59 causes less damage than idling for 2:01. Infinitesimally less damage but less none the less.
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:27 PM
 
7,691 posts, read 9,429,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
My dad always told me not to let an engine idle more than a couple of minutes when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s, that it would damage the engine. Was that true then and is it still true for late model cars to let an engine idle beyond a few minutes?
nope.....look at cop cars.....idling 24/7 from day one then they become cabs.....more miles/less maintenance and they still go 500K miles!
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Fort Walton, FL
1,775 posts, read 438,474 times
Reputation: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
True. Any time an engine is on there's damage being done. Idling for 1:59 causes less damage than idling for 2:01. Infinitesimally less damage but less none the less.
The word "wear" in place of "damage" would be more correct.
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Old 06-04-2017, 04:44 PM
 
Location: the coastal bend
3,926 posts, read 2,376,924 times
Reputation: 5255
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
They need to either draw EGR post after treatment system
Agreed 100% - if we must have EGR at all, it should be drawn downstream of the ATS.

Oh, and I love "trash can of doom," cuz that's exactly what the damn things are!
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
4,923 posts, read 2,878,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
Agreed 100% - if we must have EGR at all, it should be drawn downstream of the ATS.

Oh, and I love "trash can of doom," cuz that's exactly what the damn things are!


Not on my trucks. Thanks EGR deletes!
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:15 PM
 
Location: PSL
3,970 posts, read 734,342 times
Reputation: 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
Not on my trucks. Thanks EGR deletes!
I used to get bullet proof diesels fake cooler to pass DOT emissions on hot shot trucks. Open the hood, yup cooler and valve are still present.

Punch the cat out and run pipe in place of the catalysts, yup still on. OK you are free to go, wait a minute need a fuel sample... as long as you had regular low sulfur and not off road you were good.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
4,923 posts, read 2,878,661 times
Reputation: 5522
Quote:
Originally Posted by NY_refugee87 View Post
I used to get bullet proof diesels fake cooler to pass DOT emissions on hot shot trucks. Open the hood, yup cooler and valve are still present.

Punch the cat out and run pipe in place of the catalysts, yup still on. OK you are free to go, wait a minute need a fuel sample... as long as you had regular low sulfur and not off road you were good.


Yep I've used some BPD products in the past. This time around on my Cummins I went with some other brands. So far so good and no emissions testing here.
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