U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-10-2019, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,278 posts, read 27,885,235 times
Reputation: 11917

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
I live 100+ miles straight west of Rapid City -- higher elevation so slightly cooler (couple degrees) summer and winter. In 50 years here I've never seen it colder than -33F nor hotter than 104F.

The coldest day was on Christmas Eve morning, and we (family) were planning to fly my private plane back to Iowa for Christmas. I had an engine heater on all 6 cylinders and the oil pan plus an electric cabin heater. When I started it up it was misfiring, so I taxied it to the FBO to see what was wrong. When I jumped out of the cabin I saw two streaks of hydraulic fluid in the snow -- one for each of the main landing gear. The hydraulic seals were apparently frozen, or at least too hard form seals. I decided it was too cold to fly. Wife took the kids in our AMC Eagle and headed out for the week. (The misfiring was from ice crystals in the fuel.)

Several years later we woke up to similar weather. I had my diesel truck hooked up to a block heater so it started right up. But it was misfiring. We got about a mile before it quit, luckily a block from my son's house. Similar problem as I'd had with the plane -- diesel fuel had gelled up.

I saw similar temps in central S.D. one year, cold enough to freeze the battery. I think the alternator quit before the battery froze, which would be why it froze. Stranded me in Chamberlain for 5-6 days while we waited to get a new alternator for the Saab shipped from Edmonton. All roads in and out were closed for a couple of those days.

The only time I've seen -40F was on the Alaska Highway, just outside of Whitehorse, YT. 5W20 oil had to be heated to pour out of its oil can. Guy at the service station said I was lucky to be traveling that week, as the previous week it was cold.


Anyway, I've always just bought the best batteries available. The ones in my 2000 F250 PSD were branded Ford, and since they lasted until I removed them to use in my camper at year 8, I replaced them with Ford-brand batteries. Unfortunately they only lasted 3 years.
In Fairbanks, Alaska, an anti-gelling compound is added to the diesel fuel in the underground tanks at the pump. This is only done during the winter months, and in a way it is #1 fuel (winterized).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-11-2019, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Vermont
284 posts, read 67,424 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyoNewk View Post
I live 100+ miles straight west of Rapid City -- higher elevation so slightly cooler (couple degrees) summer and winter. In 50 years here I've never seen it colder than -33F nor hotter than 104F.

The coldest day was on Christmas Eve morning, and we (family) were planning to fly my private plane back to Iowa for Christmas. I had an engine heater on all 6 cylinders and the oil pan plus an electric cabin heater. When I started it up it was misfiring, so I taxied it to the FBO to see what was wrong. When I jumped out of the cabin I saw two streaks of hydraulic fluid in the snow -- one for each of the main landing gear. The hydraulic seals were apparently frozen, or at least too hard form seals. I decided it was too cold to fly. Wife took the kids in our AMC Eagle and headed out for the week. (The misfiring was from ice crystals in the fuel.)

Several years later we woke up to similar weather. I had my diesel truck hooked up to a block heater so it started right up. But it was misfiring. We got about a mile before it quit, luckily a block from my son's house. Similar problem as I'd had with the plane -- diesel fuel had gelled up.

I saw similar temps in central S.D. one year, cold enough to freeze the battery. I think the alternator quit before the battery froze, which would be why it froze. Stranded me in Chamberlain for 5-6 days while we waited to get a new alternator for the Saab shipped from Edmonton. All roads in and out were closed for a couple of those days.

The only time I've seen -40F was on the Alaska Highway, just outside of Whitehorse, YT. 5W20 oil had to be heated to pour out of its oil can. Guy at the service station said I was lucky to be traveling that week, as the previous week it was cold.


Anyway, I've always just bought the best batteries available. The ones in my 2000 F250 PSD were branded Ford, and since they lasted until I removed them to use in my camper at year 8, I replaced them with Ford-brand batteries. Unfortunately they only lasted 3 years.
Great story!

My gas-powered Honda starts right up at -40 with supercapacitors and I've never had a fuel issue. I'm unaware of gasoline gelling like diesel. Of course, I also don't have an alternator either, but instead have a rectified 3 phase motor feeding a DC-DC converter which drops it from ~300v down to the ~14v the car runs on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
1,869 posts, read 784,214 times
Reputation: 2555
Quote:
Originally Posted by EckyX View Post
I'm unaware of gasoline gelling like diesel.
Gasoline doesn't gel. It just doesn't burn because it won't vaporize.. In college we had a chemistry lab where we took regular gasoline outside, let it sit in the shade and hit ambient temp (it was -46F on that day). Light a match, and try to light the fuel. It won't light no matter what you do because the vapor is what burns. Drop the match in the fuel and it puts it out, just like water. Heat the fuel a few degrees and it will burn.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2019, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,029 posts, read 1,524,563 times
Reputation: 4087
Quote:
Originally Posted by EckyX View Post
Great story!

My gas-powered Honda starts right up at -40 with supercapacitors and I've never had a fuel issue. I'm unaware of gasoline gelling like diesel. Of course, I also don't have an alternator either, but instead have a rectified 3 phase motor feeding a DC-DC converter which drops it from ~300v down to the ~14v the car runs on.
Gasoline is multiples better than diesel in very cold weather. I think it is "usable" down to -70F. Diesel can become problematic at 0F unless additives are added. In WWII the Germans would add gasoline to the diesel to increase cold weather starting. I've read rumors of that being dangerous with modern diesels, that the gas could explode in the injectors. Can't evaluate that.

There is usually some water in our gasoline. It is easy to believe the water froze and conked out the engine. It would be prudent to use water removers in very cold environs. I suspect that isopropyl alcohol is the active ingredient. A "chemist/handyman" could often save money by using their own ingredients.

I live in a very cold region and am consequently partial to propane as a generator fuel.

FWIW, kerosene has far better cold weather characteristics than diesel. One has to be careful with substituting as kerosene lacks the lubricity of diesel. Too much usage would eventually damage the engine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
1,869 posts, read 784,214 times
Reputation: 2555
One of my friends in college had an old diesel Ford Crew Cab line truck. Given the temps in Fairbanks at the time, he would plug in the heater (which turned out to be on some part of the fuel line or filter) all day at school. He also never turned off the truck. Most years the truck was running continuously from October 15th through April 1.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 03:48 AM
 
12,159 posts, read 6,324,308 times
Reputation: 22350
In my experience, cold doesn’t kill batteries. Extreme heat and completely discharging the battery multiple times are what kills them. If you live in Phoenix, batteries die in a few years. A conventional battery degraded significantly if you fully discharge it a few times. AGM batteries don’t have the discharge problem so they’re a good work-around if you tend to knock your battery completely dead leaving lights on or not running the car for weeks where all the electronics are still drawing a little current.

If it’s the original battery in a 2010, that would be a miracle in Phoenix. In a cold climate where it rarely gets above 90F, 9 or 10 years is about the best you’re going to get out of a battery. It doesn’t take much to start a compact crossover. A good middle grade battery should be fine. If it’s a newer replacement battery, it’s likely been fully discharged multiple times. Replace it with an AGM battery that will survive full discharges better.

Last edited by GeoffD; Yesterday at 03:58 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,029 posts, read 1,524,563 times
Reputation: 4087
Cold prolongs battery life. The problem is that even a newish battery may not supply enough starting power when it is really cold. Battery life goes up as one heads north. Then it drops when the climate is "too cold".

FWIW - lithium batteries are miserable performers in the cold. We will not have lithium starter batteries for some time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
 
2,498 posts, read 2,201,001 times
Reputation: 2803
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomzoom3 View Post
Battery went dead in my sister's 2010 Toyota Rav 4. Here in Florida, finding a battery is easy, all you do is get one rated for a warmer climate. She lives in a part of the country that commonly sees 40 below in the winter, and 120 degrees in the summer. I hear Costco Kirkland is a good battery, and Auto Zone's duralast platinum is also good, but can they handle such extremes of hot & cold?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would just like to point out that while there are some extreme climates in the USA... nowhere does it "commonly" get to 120 and -40.

100 and -15 perhaps...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,268 posts, read 16,801,284 times
Reputation: 13736
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
... There is usually some water in our gasoline. It is easy to believe the water froze and conked out the engine. It would be prudent to use water removers in very cold environs. I suspect that isopropyl alcohol is the active ingredient. A "chemist/handyman" could often save money by using their own ingredients....
One winter in Alaska I was having a heck of a time with my snowmobile in the mountains. I didn't have a garage to work on it, so when I'd get back to Anchorage I'd leave it in the back of my pickup (with topper) and warm it up so I could comfortably work on the snowmobile. But I never did much tinkering on it, because it would start right off and run fine. Go to the mountains to snowmobile the next weekend and it wouldn't run! Finally I caught on what was happening when I noticed the clear plastic fuel line had ice crystals in it. I started adding a little Heet to the gasoline and never had another problem. That's precisely what was happening to my plane that cold Christmas Eve morning. I'd used Heet in my cars 50 years ago but got out of the habit. I'd never seen ice in the fuel of my planes either, in 30+ years of cold weather flying... except that once.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
16,278 posts, read 27,885,235 times
Reputation: 11917
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
In my experience, cold doesn’t kill batteries. Extreme heat and completely discharging the battery multiple times are what kills them. If you live in Phoenix, batteries die in a few years. A conventional battery degraded significantly if you fully discharge it a few times. AGM batteries don’t have the discharge problem so they’re a good work-around if you tend to knock your battery completely dead leaving lights on or not running the car for weeks where all the electronics are still drawing a little current.

If it’s the original battery in a 2010, that would be a miracle in Phoenix. In a cold climate where it rarely gets above 90F, 9 or 10 years is about the best you’re going to get out of a battery. It doesn’t take much to start a compact crossover. A good middle grade battery should be fine. If it’s a newer replacement battery, it’s likely been fully discharged multiple times. Replace it with an AGM battery that will survive full discharges better.
Extreme cold can kill a battery that is nearly or fully discharged. One of the dangers associated with jump-starting a vehicle in extreme cold weather is a battery that has frozen already. In this case the battery being "jumped" can break apart and hurt you. It is a good idea to do a physical inspection of the battery to make sure that it is not cracked already. You have to be real careful when jump starting in extreme cold weather. Long time ago a military coworker of mine jump started a friends truck and just when disconnecting the cables from the battery, it sort of cracked open sending battery acid all over him. He was lucky that the acid didn't get in his eyes and that we had emergency shower heads in my shop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top