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Old 06-11-2013, 05:20 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 6,053,260 times
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from CBO:

"Different types of vehicles traveling in different locations contribute differently to the social costs of highway use. Passenger vehicles log more than 90 percent of all miles traveled on U.S. highways, and they are responsible for the largest share of the total costs of highway travel. In particular, urban travel by passenger vehicles constitutes about two-thirds of all vehicle-miles traveled, and it is the primary source of congestion, the largest category of social costs. Heavy trucks travel less than 10 percent of all vehicle miles, but their costs per mile are far higher than are those for passenger vehicles, and they are responsible for most pavement damage."
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,082,432 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
Not the same at all. If I own a house and don't pay property tax, I'm a tax evader and I can have my property seized.

A better analogy would be if I sold my 3000 SF house and bought a 1000 SF house and pay less prop tax should I be punished.
That is an equally poor analogy because your smaller house would occupy less land while your more efficient car would effectively travel the same distance as your less efficient car and cause an equivalent level of damage while paying less towards fixing it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:39 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 6,053,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
That is an equally poor analogy because your smaller house would occupy less land while your more efficient car would effectively travel the same distance as your less efficient car and cause an equivalent level of damage while paying less towards fixing it.
At the risk of going too far off track...

Not equally poor...if I had the same # of people living in a smaller house we would still all have the same amount of activity. Just happening in a smaller, cheaper footprint.

And also the notion of "road damage" is just one externality a gas tax is meant to address. Congestion and air quality are others and on that score EVs and to a lesser extent hybrids are a plus.

Personally, I too would rather do a weight/distance based road tax, don't get me wrong, but it only works IMHO if it's instituted completely and quickly and if the gas tax goes away. I can't see either EVER happening, and therein lies my objection to a make-up extra tax on EVs/hybrids.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:49 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,082,432 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
At the risk of going too far off track...

Not equally poor...if I had the same # of people living in a smaller house we would still all have the same amount of activity. Just happening in a smaller, cheaper footprint.

And also the notion of "road damage" is just one externality a gas tax is meant to address. Congestion and air quality are others and on that score EVs and to a lesser extent hybrids are a plus.

Personally, I too would rather do a weight/distance based road tax, don't get me wrong, but it only works IMHO if it's instituted completely and quickly and if the gas tax goes away. I can't see either EVER happening, and therein lies my objection to a make-up extra tax on EVs/hybrids.
I understand that the gasoline tax covers a broader range of topics than just road repair but most if not all of them are spread equally among all vehicles so mentioning each of them individually would confuse the conversation further. The federal government and states each take a share of the cut and the states decide how to disperse their portion.

As of 2011, this is the breakdown of the federal portion of gas tax:
  • Highway Trust Fund – 15.44 Cents/Gallon
  • Mass Transit – 2.86 Cents/Gallon
  • Leaking Underground Storage – 0.1 Cents/Gallon
And here is an example from one state (Washington):
  • 2005 Transportation Partnership Projects – $0.08/Gallon
  • 2003 Nickel Package Projects – $0.05/Gallon
  • Local Road Projects – $0.11/Gallon
  • Debt on Previous Projects – $0.04/Gallon
  • Maintenance, Operations, and Safety Improvements – $0.11/Gallon

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Old 06-11-2013, 06:17 PM
 
16,376 posts, read 22,481,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Me007gold View Post
But they are still causing damage, it dosnt matter how much or how little the are causing. They are using the same road as every one else, and should pay accordingly
Road maintenance is usually needed due to age of road and the elements and temperature. Even a road that gets only foot traffic needs to be repaired over time, and it's not from the foot traffic. There are roads that get virtually no traffic in some areas and they still need maintenance. If left long enough (without traffic) roads will deteriorate.

Sidewalks don't get car traffic, and they need to be maintained and repaired over time.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:03 PM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,660 posts, read 5,087,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
There is definitely an excuse. You cause the same amount of wear to the roads yet pay less to repair it. That is unfair to other drivers.
So what is preventing the "other drivers" from purchasing a hybrid that they also may pay less?

Now I'll read the rest of the thread. This is just the first simple post I found to respond to.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:10 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,082,432 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
So what is preventing the "other drivers" from purchasing a hybrid that they also may pay less?

Now I'll read the rest of the thread. This is just the first simple post I found to respond to.
Why should someone spend more of their money to buy a hybrid and lose the power of choice to be taxed with equality?
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:13 PM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,660 posts, read 5,087,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iTsLiKeAnEgG View Post
It's not at all like that. A skinny person pays less in taxes at restaurants because they eat less food. Just because I traded in my gas guzzler for a hybrid does not mean that I drive less and exert less wear on the roads.
But the skinny people are still putting wear and tear on the knives, forks and spoons, all of which need to be replaced at some point!
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:19 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 20,082,432 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
But the skinny people are still putting wear and tear on the knives, forks and spoons, all of which need to be replaced at some point!
Right, every diner pays for restaurant maintenance as a small portion of each check. The more often you go to restaurants and use their facilities, the more you pay for this maintenance as a part of your bill. So going more often means paying more dining bills which means paying more for maintenance while going less often means paying fewer dining bills and in turn paying less for the maintenance.

This is exactly how the road use tax should work. The more often you use it (the more miles you drive) the more you pay into maintaining it (a mileage/weight tax).
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:19 PM
 
Location: No Mask For Me This Time, Either
5,660 posts, read 5,087,209 times
Reputation: 6086
And people in carpools gain an unfair advantage. The only solution is to stuff a LoJack up everyone's @ss and charge an individual "distance traveled tax".
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