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How many of you posting actually HAVE an American SUV? It's all fine and dandy to say that US automakers have turned things around, but considering they were at the bottom of the heap, they still have a long ways to go in terms of reliability and longevity.
That's probably my biggest gripe with American SUV's, is their longevity. They work fine when you first get them, and maybe even for 5 years with no serious problems. After that however, it seems everything breaks at once. Plastic parts snap, suspension components/bushings are all worn out and cracked, chassis is starting to creak, plastic radiators fail... Ugh.
I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, 2004. For a midsized SUV, it weighs 4200 lbs. For comparison, we also have a Porsche Cayenne S. They are very similarly sized vehicles, both seat 5, etc. It weighs 5200 lbs.
That extra 1000 lbs is felt on the road every time you get in it. It's simply a much more solid vehicle, and its even more capable offroad than the top of the line Overland is, not that we ever use it for that. Jacking up both vehicles and taking a look under them, it's easy to see which one is made with cost cutting in mind and which one isn't. The Jeep's frame and underbody aren't anywhere near as robust as the Cayenne, and you can feel it in the handling especially, the Jeep flexes over any little bump in the road.
I spent this morning replacing the track bar on the Jeep, damn bushings worn out (not replaceable, have to get an aftermarket bar or stock one) because if you don't, these vehicles (and a LOT of American SUV's and trucks that do not have independent front suspension and use a track bar) get what is called "death wobble." If you've ever experienced it, it isn't something you want to ever have happen again.
Anyway, just keep in mind that while US automakers have starting making better automobiles, they are still behind the curve IMO. I have heard good things about the Buick Enclave believe it or not, but nothing about long term use yet. As far as Jeeps go, I think the WJ was a much better model than the WK that replaced it.
Dodge Durangos used to have horrible reliability with their transmissions. Not sure if that has been remedied.
All in all, I think you're better off sticking with a German or Japanese SUV, especially if you've had good results and take care of your vehicles.
Here we go. I find it amusing that you are comparing a Grand Cherokee to a Cayenne in the first place. I'm not even sure what else to say there.
I don't even know of any American product that uses a live axle anymore, except for possibly commercial vehicles. So that is a nonexistent complaint today.
The Durango uses a ZF transmission, no problems there. Yes the WJ was better than the WK in many ways (thank Daimler), but the WK2 is worlds better.
Here we go. I find it amusing that you are comparing a Grand Cherokee to a Cayenne in the first place. I'm not even sure what else to say there.
I don't even know of any American product that uses a live axle anymore, except for possibly commercial vehicles. So that is a nonexistent complaint today.
The Durango uses a ZF transmission, no problems there. Yes the WJ was better than the WK in many ways (thank Daimler), but the WK2 is worlds better.
Full-size pick-up trucks and full size E-series Van(s) and the current gen Mustang still use a live axle set up.
I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, 2004. For a midsized SUV, it weighs 4200 lbs. For comparison, we also have a Porsche Cayenne S. They are very similarly sized vehicles, both seat 5, etc. It weighs 5200 lbs.
That extra 1000 lbs is felt on the road every time you get in it. It's simply a much more solid vehicle, and its even more capable offroad than the top of the line Overland is, not that we ever use it for that. Jacking up both vehicles and taking a look under them, it's easy to see which one is made with cost cutting in mind and which one isn't. The Jeep's frame and underbody aren't anywhere near as robust as the Cayenne, and you can feel it in the handling especially, the Jeep flexes over any little bump in the road.
I have no comment on most of your post but you are about 700 lbs off on the Cayenne. The curb weight of a 2013 Cayenne S is 4553 lbs, not 5200 lbs. The sibling VW Touareg weighs a bit more.
Here we go. I find it amusing that you are comparing a Grand Cherokee to a Cayenne in the first place. I'm not even sure what else to say there.
I don't even know of any American product that uses a live axle anymore, except for possibly commercial vehicles. So that is a nonexistent complaint today.
The Durango uses a ZF transmission, no problems there. Yes the WJ was better than the WK in many ways (thank Daimler), but the WK2 is worlds better.
I find it amusing that you know nothing about the multitude of transmission problems that the Durango has experienced, as well as several recalls for various components, throughout it's entire life cycle.
It's also only been fairly recently, in the past 5 years or so, that US automakers have ditched the front live axles on their trucks and SUV's. Jeep did it in 2005 for the GC, Dodge did it in 2006 for some of their models... but practically ALL of them still have live rear axles.
I see you are also not familiar with the pricing of vehicles either. Our JGC Overland invoice was $42k. The Cayenne S for 2004 (we have a 2006) started at $56k... not that much higher, and definitely a bargain considering how much better built it is compared to the Jeep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
I have no comment on most of your post but you are about 700 lbs off on the Cayenne. The curb weight of a 2013 Cayenne S is 4553 lbs, not 5200 lbs. The sibling VW Touareg weighs a bit more.
Today's Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 weighs 5150 lbs.
I don't have a 2013. The new models are approx 600 lbs lighter than my 2006, due to increased use of aluminum.
I don't have a 2013. The new models are approx 600 lbs lighter than my 2006, due to increased use of aluminum.
All your numbers are a lil off.. published curb weights for a first gen Cayenne are between 4,900 and 5,000 lbs. A current one has its weight published as anywhere between 4470-4525 lbs and Porsche claims closer to 550lbs of weight savings..
Whats a couple hundred pounds of exageration between friends..
All your numbers are a lil off.. published curb weights for a first gen Cayenne are between 4,900 and 5,000 lbs. A current one has its weight published as anywhere between 4470-4525 lbs and Porsche claims closer to 550lbs of weight savings..
Whats a couple hundred pounds of exageration between friends..
Resale value for American vehicles tends to be a lot worse than resale for Japanese vehicles.
So when it's time to trade in or sell, you might not get as much back in resale value. Or if it's wrecked/stolen and insurance pays you based on resale value.
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I find it amusing that you are comparing a Grand Cherokee to a Cayenne in the first place. I'm not even sure what else to say there.
