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If you have to have a secondary car, then really the primary car being electric is just a waste of money. You'd be better off just having a primary car and no secondary car.
Could you clarify what you mean here? It sounds like you're saying that if you need a second car, then you're better off not having a second car (if one of the cars would be an EV).
If you have to have a secondary car, then really the primary car being electric is just a waste of money. You'd be better off just having a primary car and no secondary car. What's insurance on a Volt, maybe $100 month, $260 lease, taxes, registration maybe another $100 average over the lease. It's next to impossible to save $500/mo on gas. Hell, I drive 25-30k miles a year and don't spend close to that on gas for my primary vehicle. PHEVs like the Volt might bridge the gap, but take away the subsidies and GM losing money on each one they sell and they're not there yet. The cost still has to come down.
As teh owner of a Volt, youre just wrong. Your math is off, because you're acting like the payments and insurance and all on a Volt are included in your costs, but the payments and insurance on whatever car you replaced it with are zero, in order to get your $500 difference.
My Volt replaced a car I was paying $300/month for AnD $200/month in gas. Compared to that car, i'm saving $200/month in gas and $30 a month in insurance, therefor, as a primary car, teh Volt saves me money vs my previous primary car. I have secondary car for my wife and woudl have that car regardless, so the Volt stillsaves money over a gasoline primary car. My monthly budget for cars has dropped because of the Volt and I have a secondary car stil (and A third car/truck, but that's not part of this conversation)
If we can leave the pissing contest, and return to the OP for a moment...
Nobody is honest about the Total Cost of Ownership or electric versus conventional versus hybrid cars. Everybody has an agenda.
According to one "research group," electric vehicles easily have the cheapest TCO. Of course, it's the " Electric Power Research Institute" that has come to those conclusions...
Also, nobody seems to be willing to talk about whether or not you can get a $7,500 EV Tax Credit - or how long that credit might last (I believe it expires on 12/31/13). In addition, some states and municipalities offer credits and/or lower per-KWH rates for electricity.
In the end, if you WANT an EV, and it works for what you need, BUY ONE! Over the next 10 years it might cost you a little more or less than a conventional, but who cares? Doesn't everybody tend to buy the car they WANT anyway?
On the 7500 EV credit, I understand that it's available for plugin cars for each manufacturer until they sell 200,000 credited cars....seems squirrely but I want to be sure I get it if I buy EV.
Yeah it's hard to get unbiased information as everyone seems to have an agenda and logic and objectivity are hard to come by. Part of my rationale is saving miles on my 7 series as miles really depreciate a car like that.
As teh owner of a Volt, youre just wrong. Your math is off, because you're acting like the payments and insurance and all on a Volt are included in your costs, but the payments and insurance on whatever car you replaced it with are zero, in order to get your $500 difference.
My Volt replaced a car I was paying $300/month for AnD $200/month in gas. Compared to that car, i'm saving $200/month in gas and $30 a month in insurance, therefor, as a primary car, teh Volt saves me money vs my previous primary car. I have secondary car for my wife and woudl have that car regardless, so the Volt stillsaves money over a gasoline primary car. My monthly budget for cars has dropped because of the Volt and I have a secondary car stil (and A third car/truck, but that's not part of this conversation)
The Volt isn't an electric car; it's a PHEV. Unlike with an electric car, PHEVs don't have the range issues that electric cars have. You just missed my point since you (A) don't drive an electric car and (B) already have a second car in the household which you either mostly use for your longer drivers or you just don't do longer drives with any regularity. That's also why I said PHEVs (like your Volt) might plug the gap. They offer enough electric-only range to be used substantially as an electric car but mean you don't need a secondary vehicle or are forced to rent a car every time you take a longer drive.The price still needs to come down on PHEVs, however, for them to be cost competitive. GM isn't in the business of losing money (which it does on each Volt it sells) and the government couldn't afford to give $7,500 rebates for every new car sold. It works for now while PHEVs and EVs are in the incubator period but it's really only government and manufacturer subsidies artificially lowering the price which makes them appear fairly cost competitive.
Could you clarify what you mean here? It sounds like you're saying that if you need a second car, then you're better off not having a second car (if one of the cars would be an EV).
99% of people would need a second car with an EV. And yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. If you're one of the 1% that wouldn't need a second car, an EV might make sense. For the other 99% who would, you're better off not having a second car. The amount you save in gas would be more than offset by the payments, insurance, and registration costs of the EV. For example, I drive approximately 30,000 miles per year and spend about $400/month on gas. If I could do all my driving in the cheapest EV, the Leaf, I could save at most $400/month on gas.
Lease: $250 (lease + the cap reduction), insurance ~$100, mileage charges $225 = $575/mo. That's before tax, title, registration.
Buy: $21k @.9% for 60 months = $350, insurance $100/mo = $450. It's probably worth something, maybe $7,500? after five years. Subtracting that out, $375/month. Taxes and registration probably about $400/month. Reality is I couldn't offset anywhere close to that. At best, I could use it for about 1/3 of the miles I drive, which works out to a savings (assuming electricity is free) of about $110/month.
99% of people would need a second car with an EV. And yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. If you're one of the 1% that wouldn't need a second car, an EV might make sense. For the other 99% who would, you're better off not having a second car. The amount you save in gas would be more than offset by the payments, insurance, and registration costs of the EV. For example, I drive approximately 30,000 miles per year and spend about $400/month on gas. If I could do all my driving in the cheapest EV, the Leaf, I could save at most $400/month on gas.
Lease: $250 (lease + the cap reduction), insurance ~$100, mileage charges $225 = $575/mo. That's before tax, title, registration.
Buy: $21k @.9% for 60 months = $350, insurance $100/mo = $450. It's probably worth something, maybe $7,500? after five years. Subtracting that out, $375/month. Taxes and registration probably about $400/month. Reality is I couldn't offset anywhere close to that. At best, I could use it for about 1/3 oef the miles I drive, which works out to a savings (assuming electricity is free) of about $110/month.
I disagree with the part about everyone would be better off without an EV as a second car. There are compelling reasons to use an EV as a 2nd car. It's 10-15 times less costly for the energy where I live...so if I drive 1000 miles/month in an EV, I will save $170/mo just in energy cost...which more than pays the cost of leasing a Smart EV ($139/mo). Not to mention reducing dependency on foreign oil from nations that want to destroy us and which we have fought wars because of their oil, balance of payments reduced, and lowering pollution in our cities.
I still think a used late model PU truck makes the best second vehicle if you already own a fuel efficient family car for people that own their own home outside of the city.
I see no problem for urban use but they are very limited as to charging. having worked with batteries I also am not too found of their relaibilty and lithium on their safe useage in charging.
I disagree with the part about everyone would be better off without an EV as a second car. There are compelling reasons to use an EV as a 2nd car. It's 10-15 times less costly for the energy where I live...so if I drive 1000 miles/month in an EV, I will save $170/mo just in energy cost...which more than pays the cost of leasing a Smart EV ($139/mo). Not to mention reducing dependency on foreign oil from nations that want to destroy us and which we have fought wars because of their oil, balance of payments reduced, and lowering pollution in our cities.
You forgot the $2,433 due at signing, tax title and license, registration, insurance. Those cost a lot more than $31/month.
Canada doesn't want to destroy us, which is where we import most of our foreign oil from. Manufacturing of goods, such as having an unnecessary second car, accounts for just as much C02 emissions as transportation (including both personal transportation and shipping of goods). Any benefit of buying extraneous stuff to cut down on gasoline burned by increasing electrical use (generated by fossil fuels) is questionable. Of course, it's not made in the USA so it's not pollution in your back yard. It's pollution in a foreign country that wants to destroy us just as much as Canada does (not at all) but does increase our current account deficit. Back to pollution, you'd be better of living a minimalist life. Having one older ULEV car, downsizing your residence to a small studio apartment, moving closer to your job such that you don't have to drive 1,000 miles a month with your EV but could walk to things, not having that 70" plasma TV, the new iEverything. That'd be far more effective than buying more stuff. Parking the fancy EV next to your second car in the garage of your 2,800 square foot house isn't environmentally friendly. It's Prius snobbery. If it makes you feel good to be a Prius snob, go ahead and do it. You're no worse than anyone else.
99% of people would need a second car with an EV. And yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. If you're one of the 1% that wouldn't need a second car, an EV might make sense. For the other 99% who would, you're better off not having a second car.
You both have a point but you're missing the fact that many households need two cars anyway. That's the demographic you have disregarded. You're right though that purchasing an EV is not a financially-prudent choice if it means you have to buy an EXTRA car, but if you would need the extra car anyhow (as part of a multi-car household) then it doesn't matter.
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