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Old 04-01-2014, 02:46 PM
 
892 posts, read 1,494,405 times
Reputation: 1870

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller88 View Post
It helps, too, that people can finance anything. Why would you buy a ranger when you can finance a F350 King Ranch for 120 months at $300 a month?

Wow...basic math sure isn't your strong suit is it?

$300/monthx120 months = $36,000, total P&I. I'd sure like to know where these magical $36K King Ranch F350s are, considering MSRP STARTS at $51,700. Sure, everyone gets discounts off the MSRP, but they're sure not getting a nearly 16K discount, especially if they're getting a 0% APR loan like your fuzzy math would imply, and they sure as hell aren't getting that 0% for 10 freaking years.

Heck, for that matter, I don't believe I've ever even seen a 10 year loan for a vehicle other than those in the RV market.

Then again, why let facts and some common sense get in the way of a good tin foil hat and conspiracy argument?
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:09 PM
 
865 posts, read 2,153,695 times
Reputation: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbex View Post
Wow...basic math sure isn't your strong suit is it?

$300/monthx120 months = $36,000, total P&I. I'd sure like to know where these magical $36K King Ranch F350s are, considering MSRP STARTS at $51,700. Sure, everyone gets discounts off the MSRP, but they're sure not getting a nearly 16K discount, especially if they're getting a 0% APR loan like your fuzzy math would imply, and they sure as hell aren't getting that 0% for 10 freaking years.

Heck, for that matter, I don't believe I've ever even seen a 10 year loan for a vehicle other than those in the RV market.

Then again, why let facts and some common sense get in the way of a good tin foil hat and conspiracy argument?
What is the point of your post? Of course I made up the figures.

Go into a dealer and try to buy a base model truck. You'll have a dealer trying to finance you the highest available model at 72 months. It won't be long before we have 8,9,10 year financing on trucks ... that people don't need.
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:06 PM
 
892 posts, read 1,494,405 times
Reputation: 1870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller88 View Post
What is the point of your post? Of course I made up the figures.

Go into a dealer and try to buy a base model truck. You'll have a dealer trying to finance you the highest available model at 72 months. It won't be long before we have 8,9,10 year financing on trucks ... that people don't need.

Made up figures used as fact...gotcha!

Try to buy the base model truck? I have, and I did. In fact, there was a base model Ranger in my driveway for quite a few years, bought brand new. You know, there's this really nifty, really handy thing available for when the dealer offers you something else....it's called "NO". Try it sometimes, it really works! I've bought many vehicles in my lifetime...I can't recall ever having a gun held to my head, being forced into buying the top of the line vehicle, and financing it for the longest time period offered.

Sure, they offered and extolled the virtues of the various options, because that's how the sales guys feed their families. The more they sell, the more they make. They don't sell, they don't make money (I've had friends in the car sales business, and all of them have gones weeks without a paycheck due to not selling cars). I've had a few become really pushy, and that got to see me walk out and go to a different dealer. It's really not hard to do.

I do like how you edited your post though...except that your original post still made it to my email.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller88
You are extremely ignorant, however. Or, are you one of the people that financed a $51,700 King Ranch for 72 months to show off to your buddies?

FACT: Dealers, auto manufacturers finance people for way more vehicle than they need.
FACT: Most people driving pickups NEVER use them.

If you really have nothing to contribute, keep your comments to yourself.
Nothing to contribute? Such as your made up figures? Yeah...that's the epitome of helpful, lol.

Yes, some of my buddies are jealous of my truck, largely because there's no payment on it. I drive an '05 Ram, '96 Grand Cherokee, '97 Grand Cherokee, and '65 IH Scout. All of which were paid for in cash. I haven't been in debt for well over a decade and have zero intentions of ever going back in debt.

What I need is irellevent to you or anyone else. I'd be willing to bet that a stroll through your house would show an awful lot that you don't NEED. If you drive anything more than a Nissan Versa or Chevy Spark, you bought more car than you NEED, and apparently shame on the dealer than sold it to you as apparently people aren't responsible for the decisions that they make in life.

I'd be interested in these so called FACTS that you raise, and what you've got to back them up (My money says they're the same made up crap as your prior example). If you're selling an item, do you go through a list of NEED checkpoints before accepting a potential buyer's money? Do you refuse to sell it unless they can demonstrate that they NEED that particular item? Betcha ya don't - like everyone else, you accept the first offer that meets what you want out of the item.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,241,968 times
Reputation: 5479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
Not the delivery size I'm referring to. Think NAPA delivery trucks, small, compact trucks, not HINO large box or landscaper trucks. Consumer, not commercial. Picture a frontier or Tacoma with a three cylinder diesel hybrid or diesel period. Push those trucks to 23/28 city highway and poof, the American 1/2 ton is in real, real trouble. Imagine if they got 30 with a 6 speed automatic?
It would cost more for them to create then the new Ram Ecodiesel 1500 and the 2015 Aluminum Ford F150 will be already be in the same range and only be more capable and for less or the same price due to volume sales and not having to redesign it all to meet all the NHSTA safety regulations and have to Retool the plant to built them have to retain all the techs and bring in new diagnostics equipment and build up a parts supply chain means they would lose money.
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:35 PM
 
865 posts, read 2,153,695 times
Reputation: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbex View Post
Made up figures used as fact...gotcha!

Try to buy the base model truck? I have, and I did. In fact, there was a base model Ranger in my driveway for quite a few years, bought brand new. You know, there's this really nifty, really handy thing available for when the dealer offers you something else....it's called "NO". Try it sometimes, it really works! I've bought many vehicles in my lifetime...I can't recall ever having a gun held to my head, being forced into buying the top of the line vehicle, and financing it for the longest time period offered.

Sure, they offered and extolled the virtues of the various options, because that's how the sales guys feed their families. The more they sell, the more they make. They don't sell, they don't make money (I've had friends in the car sales business, and all of them have gones weeks without a paycheck due to not selling cars). I've had a few become really pushy, and that got to see me walk out and go to a different dealer. It's really not hard to do.

I do like how you edited your post though...except that your original post still made it to my email.



Nothing to contribute? Such as your made up figures? Yeah...that's the epitome of helpful, lol.

Yes, some of my buddies are jealous of my truck, largely because there's no payment on it. I drive an '05 Ram, '96 Grand Cherokee, '97 Grand Cherokee, and '65 IH Scout. All of which were paid for in cash. I haven't been in debt for well over a decade and have zero intentions of ever going back in debt.

What I need is irellevent to you or anyone else. I'd be willing to bet that a stroll through your house would show an awful lot that you don't NEED. If you drive anything more than a Nissan Versa or Chevy Spark, you bought more car than you NEED, and apparently shame on the dealer than sold it to you as apparently people aren't responsible for the decisions that they make in life.

I'd be interested in these so called FACTS that you raise, and what you've got to back them up (My money says they're the same made up crap as your prior example). If you're selling an item, do you go through a list of NEED checkpoints before accepting a potential buyer's money? Do you refuse to sell it unless they can demonstrate that they NEED that particular item? Betcha ya don't - like everyone else, you accept the first offer that meets what you want out of the item.
We agree on many points. Except on what killed the small truck.

The point I was trying to make is - keeping up with the Jones, easy financing, dealers not willing to easily sell base model vehicles and people not making good financial decisions lead to the demise of the small truck. Why would someone want a Ranger XL 5 speed 4 cyl when they can lease a "RAM" with 22'' wheels for $400 a month?

I tried to buy a base model Nissan Versa back in 2011. The one with on A/C, radio and crank windows and manual transmission. To me, that's the perfect car. It's basic transportation that gets me from point A to point B. I was, literally, laughed out of two different Nissan dealers. One at least tried to get me to lease a Sentra or finance a higher end model Versa.

I ended up going to a Ford dealer and catching a great deal on a 2011 Focus. Not the base model with crank windows like I wanted as the car was already out of production by then and there weren't any left. Used cars around here often go for more than new cars. Dealers just aren't willing to stock or sell base model vehicles too often.

The only exception to that is Jeep Wranglers and Toyota Tacomas. Dealers stock (and sell) base model Wranglers and Tacomas.

Ironically enough, the Spark and Versa are actually the two most reasonable cars on the market, IMO and they are an exceptional value. If Nissan still sells a base model Versa with crank windows and no power windows/locks and manual transmission when my Focus gets to the point that it is too rusty, I'll be on my way to buy one and pay cash for it.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 7,426,269 times
Reputation: 3391
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Sorrry, but the fact is that politics does figure heavily into this discussion. A couple years ago Mahindra was planning to bring its small pickup to the US. I was interested in getting one. A small diesel pickup with crewcab and 4wd would have been perfect for me. They ultimately nixed the plan, citing "regulatory" concerns.
Mahindra gives up altogether on small diesel pickup for U.S. - Autoblog

Politics has its tentacles in everything now. Look at the drudge report today He's got a ton of snow and ice stories up, obviously in allusion to the global warming debate, i.e. politics. Growing up 40 years ago, it would have seemed bizarre to have politics in either a discussion about trucks or about weather. That's where we are now, though.
The Mahindra was an unsafe piece of garbage. Add it wasn't small, it was full size
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:46 PM
 
545 posts, read 1,480,916 times
Reputation: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by phlinak View Post
Right, the President, all by himself, without the consent of Congress, just waved his magic wand and made it all go *poof*.
Not him personally, but his administration. The EPA is a regulatory agency with rule making authority. They have the authority to set CAFE standards. Congress has oversight and could pass laws to undo the changes, but with a Democrat controlled Senate and Obama in the White House it would be a futile effort. And with all due respect, if think President Obama hasn't made changes to existing laws without the consent of Congress (case in point: the ACA), you haven't been paying attention.
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:55 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the Kona coffee fields
834 posts, read 1,212,868 times
Reputation: 1647
Volkswagen AMAROK pickup truck: 39 mpg Diesel. Not being sold to Americans, but the rest of the world.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:21 PM
 
3,963 posts, read 5,682,483 times
Reputation: 3711
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Volkswagen AMAROK pickup truck: 39 mpg Diesel. Not being sold to Americans, but the rest of the world.
That is what I want if I had to get a truck. A guy in my neighborhood has one or a relative who owns one. He is probably a Mexican national as the truck has Mexican plates on it though it isn't always around. The perfect vehicle for a me is a ute. A car based truck or El Camino pretty much. They almost had a new one in the Pontiac G8 ST. I'm still twiddling my thumbs on buying a G8 GXP new and chopping it and attaching the ute rear end.

The full size truck for me would be a waste of space for me.
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