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Old 03-05-2014, 06:39 PM
 
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What is the saying, "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics". I agree that the 0-60 time is overrated, and many manufacturers report it as their best time, not what the average time that you could expect. Even horsepower numbers are overrated, as it matters how heavy the vehicle is, aerodynamics, etc. Then you have track type cars where braking and body roll become important. You'll also notice most track type cars aren't as comfortable for every day driving. Even track times have become a game for some of these cars, most using race tires and/or have drivers that have gone around the track thousands of times before getting the time they want. Some of these track cars are basically built just to prove a fast time around Nurburgring times for marketing.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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"Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars"

Well, not entirely true, but mostly.

One of my cars can hit 60 mph, actually 62, in first gear
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
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0-60 in a lot of races is often the determining factor on who is going to set the lead. Unless you have a bad shift or some serious wheel spin off the line, the car in front will likely stay in front.

Now, I get where the OP is coming from. A lot of these new luxury and premium sedans that are coming out with 300+ HP, and yet their torque numbers are ridiculously low and the peak HP is made at something crazy like 5,500 RPM, so really you're riding around with maybe 170HP most times. The V6's are often going to have a serious torque deficit when compared with their HP numbers.

HP numbers are definitely played and biased to grab public appeal. Take the 2009 Dodge Challenger SRT-8 with its 6.1 HEMI and 425HP. Well..the following year the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS with its 6.2 V8 makes a whopping...1HP more at 426HP.

The Camaro is faster obviously, but not because of horsepower, but weight.

Acceleration off the line lies mostly in torque and weight. Peak horsepower often determines top speed, but torque will determine how fast you accelerate to that top speed.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
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I should add that the statistic I look at the most with cars is their 1/4 mile speed.

The Corvette ZR1 may not be as quick to 60 as say the Nissan GTR which is AWD, but the ZR1 will pick up speed and catch it in the long run due to higher torque and HP, it just has traction issues being RWD.

1/4 miles are the end all be all for how "fast" your car is in my book. Any maniac can get their car up to 130+ mph on the highway, doesn't mean it gets there quickly.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:16 PM
 
Location: sumter
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As a car enthusiast, you still love to hear about those 0-60 times though. They might be overrated but I like knowing what my car is capable of and what the next guy is capable of. In a Evenly matched situation with the competition that 0-60 could be the difference at the track on the weekends.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Prosper
6,255 posts, read 16,997,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
I should add that the statistic I look at the most with cars is their 1/4 mile speed.
Agreed. Times are less important than trap speeds in determining HP. I've had several cars where I ran 10's in the quarter, at about 130mph. My current car ran a low 11 at 135, about half a second slower in the quarter, but obviously has more power, and for a top speed run or highway pull, would beat the 10 sec car.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:17 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
5,994 posts, read 19,921,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
I should add that the statistic I look at the most with cars is their 1/4 mile speed.

The Corvette ZR1 may not be as quick to 60 as say the Nissan GTR which is AWD, but the ZR1 will pick up speed and catch it in the long run due to higher torque and HP, it just has traction issues being RWD.

1/4 miles are the end all be all for how "fast" your car is in my book. Any maniac can get their car up to 130+ mph on the highway, doesn't mean it gets there quickly.
Yeah I think the 1/4 is a good measure of relative performance at least until you get into ridiculously high horsepower cars like the carbon fiber light weight supercars of today.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
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On a tight SCCA track a Suburu WRX can pull a faster time than a Corvette, but open it up a bit and the results are opposite. Point, there's no real answer, because the dynamics of the situation can alter the results.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,031,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
All the auto manufacturers and auto magazines have pretty much convinced the buying public that 0-60 is how you judge a cars quickness. Auto makers know this, so they gear cars to have tall 1st gears gears or make it quick to 60 and its about over from there since they are trying to get 30+ mpg also. Car A can get to 60 is 6.9 seconds and Car B in 6.3 seconds, yet they both get to 70mph at the same time and Car A will be considered slow even though it might be quicker than Car B from 70mph up and quicker around town due to gearing.

Every review is about HP and no regards for torque. A 2013 Fusion will get take hits for 237HP , but wont mention 270lb of torque on the low end that is better than all the high HP cars it competes against. The general public does not spend 80-90% of their driving above 5000rpm, where most non turbo cars are making their bulk power and tourque.

I have a 2012 Impala LTZ and that is a great example of fast to 60, but unless your flooring it, it sure doesnt feel like 300hp because the torque peak is 5300rpm. My old G6 GXP with 50 less HP was a tad slower to 60 than my Impala but would beat it in anything else acceleration wise.
You don't understand gearing. A tall gear is the worse choice for quick acceleration. It is especially poor getting the vehicle moving from a standstill as the engine is at a mechanical disadvantage. The other problem with tall gearing is that the engine spends very little time at the RPM that produces peak horsepower.

Short gears are best for quick acceleration. The disadvantage of them is frequent gear shifts.

Read the road tests of the 2013 Fusion. Forget the hp/tq ratings. It is slower than a Honda Accord, engine for engine. The 1.6L Ecoboost has less power and is slower than the Accord 4 cylinder. It also has poorer fuel economy. The 2.0L Ecoobost has less power and is slower than the 6 cyl Accord. Guess what? The Accord has better MPG.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,473 posts, read 33,157,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
I should add that the statistic I look at the most with cars is their 1/4 mile speed.

The Corvette ZR1 may not be as quick to 60 as say the Nissan GTR which is AWD, but the ZR1 will pick up speed and catch it in the long run due to higher torque and HP, it just has traction issues being RWD.

1/4 miles are the end all be all for how "fast" your car is in my book. Any maniac can get their car up to 130+ mph on the highway, doesn't mean it gets there quickly.
Me, too. I go mainly by the 1/4 mile time (and speed). 0-60 mph only shows the low-to-mid-range acceleration of a car.
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