Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-17-2007, 12:27 PM
 
394 posts, read 1,997,894 times
Reputation: 261

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
What you need is a salt/sand truck to properly treat the roads.
We have those, but they do not plow our sloping driveway. Last year the snow plow got stuck around the corner from us on the road, they aren't infallable, either.

And we can't afford to pay someone to plow our driveway 2-3 times a week in the winter, and dh works 7 days a week, so it's an impossibility to keep the driveway clear. And so we have SUV's.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-17-2007, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Southwest Missouri
1,921 posts, read 6,405,394 times
Reputation: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
I don't want to get off topic too much but I will say this- we have freedoms in the USA but sometimes our freedoms have to be tempered by reason for the good of the whole. Your 1st Amendment rights do not give you the right to shout "fire" in a theatre nor to noisely picket a private residence at 2AM.
Your position is not strengthened by taking two extreme examples and pretending that they justify your stance. I've never proposed that I have the right to infringe upon your freedom, safety or rights. My right to swing a fist ends abruptly at the bridge of your nose. No one is disputing that concept. However, you seem to think that your wishes should be put ahead of my rights. I'll take exception with that notion all day long, and gladly continue validating my stance on the issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
The 2nd Amendment does give us the right to own and bear arms. It does not give us the right to own and bear assualt weapons and fully automatic firearms and those weapons, which are not good for any legitimiate sporting or self defense use, can be banned- and should be. Your right to bear arms gives you the right to carry a gun (in my view) but the government can and should temper that right by requring you to be licensed and to take a course so that you know how to shoot the thing should the need arise.
Who gets to draw the line in the sand, showing which guns are acceptable and which are not? The Constitution says that I have the right to keep and bear arms. If I enjoy taking my "assault rifle" out to the range, then who are you to stop me? My personal enjoyment of the rifle is more than enough justification for me to own it.

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to tell my why an "assault rifle" is any more dangerous than other firearms. While you're at it, define an assult rifle for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 02:39 PM
 
955 posts, read 2,151,876 times
Reputation: 405
Default The Big Picture

Well, this is an interesting discussion focusing in on the size of cars, but let’s go a lot deeper. Many feel that taxes on large vehicles are the solution with exceptions made for those who need the capability. For starters, let’s look at fuel economy standards. These apply to new vehicles. If people are forced into using vehicles that do not fit their requirements, there will be many more vehicles on the road that are older as people put off the buying decision and keep their older vehicles. Older vehicle pollute much more and are much less fuel efficient than those that are driven off the showroom floor. Maybe we should tax all the people who drive old vehicles? Nah, not politically correct.
Next, there is the proven fact that larger vehicles are safer than small ones. Who is looking at the increased medical costs associated with death and injury caused by these small vehicles?
Then, the question over fuel must be taken a step further. Coal fired power plants are a real energy user. Why not go nuclear like most of Europe. Much cleaner for the environment.
And talk about taxes – how about a big tax on fast food burgers? They cost a lot of money due to health issues.
And maybe we should tax those who live in cities. I drive twenty miles to work and do not hit a stop light. When I was living in cities, a twenty mile commute after three inches of snow meant a hour long commute wasting gas and polluting our world – much more than my SUV does on my commute.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 03:48 PM
 
4,834 posts, read 6,105,238 times
Reputation: 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashcash23 View Post
If manufactuers were told that they had to stop making suvs, crossovers and all minivans by the government, what do you think that large families would drive? Also, could the government seize everyones suvs if the environment got so bad that it was absolutely necessary?

I would assume that large families would have to start buying wagons again like we did back in the good days. It would actually be kind of fun in my opinion. I would go and get a 2008 Volvo XC70 if my Armada was taken away.
I doubt that our government has or ever will have the right or the power to TELL any manufacturer what they can/cannot make! As long as there are people willing to buy SUVs and minivans there will be someone making SUVs and minivans. IF the government ever got to where they COULD control what was being manufactured then, my friend, buying a SUV or minivan would be the least of our problems!

Seize SUVs and minivans????...I think not...don't watch so much TV.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Way on the outskirts of LA LA land.
3,051 posts, read 11,562,965 times
Reputation: 1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
The 2nd Amendment does give us the right to own and bear arms. It does not give us the right to own and bear assualt weapons and fully automatic firearms and those weapons, which are not good for any legitimiate sporting or self defense use, can be banned- and should be.
Where exactly in the 2nd Amendment does it specify "sporting" or "self defense" use? Here it is: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." Since these "Arms" were intended to be used in the defense of our nation, why shouldn't they be "assault weapons?" I contend that they should be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Your right to bear arms gives you the right to carry a gun (in my view) but the government can and should temper that right by requring you to be licensed and to take a course so that you know how to shoot the thing should the need arise.
At the point which you are required to be licensed, your right has ceased to exist. It then becomes a privilege that can (and eventually will) be revoked by "The Government."

Now, back to the original topic:
I believe that with the increased cost in gasoline and diesel in our country, we will see fewer and fewer large vehicles sold here. There are "gas guzzler" taxes that are added on to the cost of owning some of these vehicles, but if people can afford to drive them, and want to do so, they should have the freedom to do so. We are already monitoring tailpipe emissions in many parts of the country, and if the vehicles are not kept up to the established standards, they cannot be registered and driven on our highways.

Again, I will say that not everyone who has one of these vehicles needs it, but some do. I personally have a compact crew cab pickup truck that allows me to carry up to six people. My family is not that big, but when each of my kids has a friend along, we fill it up. We don't have any room for any more at that point, even if we wanted to bring someone else along. I can't even put extra people in the bed of my truck (which has a shell) like we used to be able to do when I was a kid.

Do soccer moms need suburbans? I guess that depends on whether or not they are transporting the team. I would guess that many of them do so, and therefore need them. Do they need to drive them everywhere? In most cases, probably not. Should they spend the money to buy, insure, and maintain another vehicle just for the grocery shopping when they're not taking kids to soccer? Most probably can't afford to, so my answer would be probably not.

I think one of the biggest issues we have in this country is the EPA and regional folks like the AQMD not allowing more efficient technologies to be used in this country. In England, Chevrolet sells the Lacetti hatchback with a combined 58.8 mpg and station wagon with a combined 52.3 mpg.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/chevrol...l-ar16736.html

I think it's a crime that vehicles of this sort exist in other parts of the world and we can not purchase them here. These vehicles are not hybrids or some other exotic technology. I would purchase one of these vehicles if I could use it here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,145,609 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavid93225 View Post
I think it's a crime that vehicles of this sort exist in other parts of the world and we can not purchase them here. These vehicles are not hybrids or some other exotic technology. I would purchase one of these vehicles if I could use it here.
I'm really curious (and not a car expert of any kind)

Is one of the reasons these cars you cite cannot be sold in the US is related to the US safety standards?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,675,435 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Great - now you are proposing a whole new level of bureaucracy to deal with "large families" and "legitimate business" reasons

And, are you aware that the PT Cruiser is listed as an SUV?
I never said ALL SUVs and vans are bad. Just the big huge monster gas eaters. I have one myself. Just not a monster SUV
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,675,435 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon View Post
Well, this is an interesting discussion focusing in on the size of cars, but let’s go a lot deeper. Many feel that taxes on large vehicles are the solution with exceptions made for those who need the capability. For starters, let’s look at fuel economy standards. These apply to new vehicles. If people are forced into using vehicles that do not fit their requirements, there will be many more vehicles on the road that are older as people put off the buying decision and keep their older vehicles. Older vehicle pollute much more and are much less fuel efficient than those that are driven off the showroom floor. Maybe we should tax all the people who drive old vehicles? Nah, not politically correct.
Next, there is the proven fact that larger vehicles are safer than small ones. Who is looking at the increased medical costs associated with death and injury caused by these small vehicles?
Then, the question over fuel must be taken a step further. Coal fired power plants are a real energy user. Why not go nuclear like most of Europe. Much cleaner for the environment.
And talk about taxes – how about a big tax on fast food burgers? They cost a lot of money due to health issues.
And maybe we should tax those who live in cities. I drive twenty miles to work and do not hit a stop light. When I was living in cities, a twenty mile commute after three inches of snow meant a hour long commute wasting gas and polluting our world – much more than my SUV does on my commute.
Larger vehicles are only safer if they collide with smaller vehicles- which usually means the person in the smaller vehicle dies even if the wreck was not his fault. As for nuclear power, I am all for it. We need to build at least 100 new nuke plants and start shutting down the coal plants. And a big tax in fatty foods? Sounds perfectly OK to me. People with unhealthy habits should pay more because they cost more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,145,609 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
I never said ALL SUVs and vans are bad. Just the big huge monster gas eaters. I have one myself. Just not a monster SUV
OK - define "monster" gas eater - give a gas mileage range

You have one? Sell it - you have that freedom (at least for the moment)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-17-2007, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,145,609 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
And a big tax in fatty foods? Sounds perfectly OK to me. People with unhealthy habits should pay more because they cost more.

You really believe in taxing people into doing what YOU think they should? That is communism and socialism - are you aware of that? Is that what you want?

Personally, I prefer freedom - I'll leave you to be a tree hugger. You leave me alone to cut down the tree - and haul it away with my SUV - then get into my boat for a day on the lake - and the kids will have fun on the Jet Skis

How's that for a deal?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top