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BMW offers bumper to bumper service here locally for the first 4 years I think. You buy the car and don't have to worry about anything for 4 years. then you trade it in. The deal is that many people that do it trade the car in on the 3 year mark or maybe even the 2 year mark. Something goes wrong and they either pick up your car and drop off a loner or you drop it off and drive off in a loner. Things do go wrong. One of my coworkers has a 6 series that was in for a few days. They gave her a 4 series while the car was in the shop. Their are people that will pay a premium to have that kind of service. I don't have the bankroll to pay for that kind of premium. I also don't have the ability to buy a new car every 4 years or less. It does not work with my investment philosophy.
What I would rather do is pay cash for an older car that is a classic, near classic, exotic, or near exotic. You can pick up an older well maintained Bentley or Roller for less than the cost of a C Class Mercedes and guess what, in 10 years it will probably bring in the same amount that you paid. I was offered but declined a 1977 Porsche Targa S that was well maintained. It probably will never be a classic but was well worth the price point. Any beatings that the car had over price were long gone. The plus was it is a car that I can maintain on my own. It just dis not fit in with our financial plans at this time. Need to finish the home first and then find the car to fit into our garage.
BMW offers bumper to bumper service here locally for the first 4 years I think. You buy the car and don't have to worry about anything for 4 years. then you trade it in. The deal is that many people that do it trade the car in on the 3 year mark or maybe even the 2 year mark. Something goes wrong and they either pick up your car and drop off a loner or you drop it off and drive off in a loner. Things do go wrong. One of my coworkers has a 6 series that was in for a few days. They gave her a 4 series while the car was in the shop. Their are people that will pay a premium to have that kind of service. I don't have the bankroll to pay for that kind of premium. I also don't have the ability to buy a new car every 4 years or less. It does not work with my investment philosophy.
What I would rather do is pay cash for an older car that is a classic, near classic, exotic, or near exotic. You can pick up an older well maintained Bentley or Roller for less than the cost of a C Class Mercedes and guess what, in 10 years it will probably bring in the same amount that you paid. I was offered but declined a 1977 Porsche Targa S that was well maintained. It probably will never be a classic but was well worth the price point. Any beatings that the car had over price were long gone. The plus was it is a car that I can maintain on my own. It just dis not fit in with our financial plans at this time. Need to finish the home first and then find the car to fit into our garage.
LOL here ...
you see, there's some very basic and very expensive assumptions you've made which aren't true:
1) outside of the entry price (which you acknowledge is prohibitive), the BMW coverage does not include consumables. When you wear out a wiper blade ... you pay for it and the labor to install it. When the tires need replacement, you pay for them (and wait 'till you see the price for the specialty tires which fit on these cars!). When the battery wears out, you buy it (and again, it's a special battery, not something you'll get from your local parts store) because it's different voltage/charge rate battery which is computer matched to the car. And so it goes, you will still pay dearly to keep that BMW on the road on top of the admission cost.
2) If you think that a BMW or MB is expensive to keep on the road and the technology adds to the cost ... you ain't seen nothing yet until you've got a roller. My first foray into working on these rolling POS's was a seeping ride height suspension valve on the left rear of a Corniche conv. The parts package kit contained a modest size "O" ring and a ceramic spacer/thrust washer, about 1/2" in diameter and 1/8" thick. My cost, wholesale to the trade: $65!!!!. and that was decades ago. Oh, and they made a big deal about using the correct RR spec hydraulic fluid in the suspension/braking system. Foolishly, I bought a couple gallons at the dealership so that my customer could have no issue with the materials used to repair his car. That stuff, in the sealed/blessed/approved can was almost $100/gallon!!!!! I later found a source for the stuff which qualified from ATE, but it was a different color and so a dealer with a warranty claim could assert that you'd used the "wrong stuff" in the car. The "wrong stuff" would blow out the steering, suspension, and braking systems. My customer, when the ride height sense valve/switch would keep the car from starting learned to crawl underneath the car and defeat the switch so he could start it. Sometimes (frequently!), the switch was sticking and the car was really at a safe ride height to drive.
I've written on these forums about my on-again/off-again experience with a well known area RR outfit that kept, maintained, rented a sizable fleet of these cars. He'd P&M about the costs, frequently stiffed me on the repairs ... and when I'd had enough and refused to work on his next car, he'd go back to another sucker shop and get all cozy with them again. Until they'd had enough, then it was on to the next shop that would work on his cars. Sooner or later, he'd be back on my doorstep begging and pleading that a car needed to be fixed right now because it was heading out for a limo service or an owner coming back into town and needing it. The guy gave me a repeated education as to why all business that comes in the door is not necessarily good business. I had my fill of these cars after a few years ... although I had one 'benz SL customer who had about 25 RR's in his garage and would keep at least one of them running each day; it was a rare week that he didn't stop by with some problem(s) on a car that were critical to it's continued operation. They were maintenance hogs that led the way for the MB and BMW over engineering of few years later.
Beautiful to look at, precious materials and fabulous leather and wool carpets and such simply don't substitute for the electronics/electrical systems, and equipment that suffered greatly from Brit "lot rot". One of the reasons why my one customer kept 25 of these cars was so that he could reasonably count on one of them being ready to run on a given day. And they were all "nice" cars, a pleasure to drive seeped in all that "luxury" ... when they ran and everything worked.
PS: was just having a flash back to the day when I diagnosed one of these cars with having failed ignition wires leading to running/idling problems for that one customer. He wouldn't believe me that the HT wires had failed ..."rolls wouldn't use inferior materials!". But Rolls routed the ignition wires through metal tubes along the valve covers; I've never figured out their reasoning except for cosmetics and a neat underhood appearance. Anyway, the wires insulation failed and they were shorting out to the metal tubes. I could show the guy on my SunScope the intermittent firing, but he wasn't buying it. Stormed off with the car, accusing me of being a _____ rip-off ... and hey, I was going to re-wire it with Packard high quality ignition solid core wire which was superior to the OE stuff for a fraction of the cost of the OE wires. He wound up spending over $750 for an OE set to be installed by the shop he trusted with the project. There's no such thing as inexpensive around a roller shop.
Used Mercedes, BMWs and Audis, I would try to avoid, unless I have almost unlimited funds.
One good friend was working in business and she had a MB, once the warranty expired, the car started to give her many expensive problems. Now she is teaching and she does not have money any more. She drives an aging Ford, and as she says, at least it is pretty reliable for its age and parts are plenty and cheap.
I have been tempted into buying an M5, but I know that it is going to be a money pit. I am not ready for this.
Why do I not trust the judgement of a man who could not even maintain his own TEETH? ...and who does not have enough sense to stop doing close-up face shots showing his awful teeth?
And I would be hesitant to value the "advice" of someone who drives something as tacky and impractical as a Corvette. He drives like a jackass, too. And did you hear the engine in that Corvette clanking-away?
I DO value the judgement of a brilliant structural engineer I know, who buys a new S-class every six-to-eight years. He's made well over a hundred million Dollars designing and building his own office buildings and office parks. I've learned a LOT from him (although his business model is quite different from mine, and we deliberately have positioned ourselves so as not to compete for tenants).
Anyway, while my 'Godfather' complains about the cost of maintaining the S, he keeps them well past lapse of warranty, and then passes them on to his son, who (being a more careful and sedate driver) seems to find Mercedes ownership perfectly satisfactory.
The trick, in most cases, is to NOT go to dealers for service, but to instead go to the best independent shop in your area. We drove Swedish (pre-Ford) Volvos until around 2006. We bought them used, and put huge mileage on them. And we NEVER took them to the Dealer. Instead, there was a Volvo specialist, who actually fixed what was wrong, and did so for a good price. I don't think there was much difference between a Volvo and a Mercedes (wiring harness and air conditioning problems seemed identical, for example). People would go on about how expensive and troublesome it was to keep a Volvo on the road. And there we were with well over 300,000 miles on each car in our little fleet. And when we got hit by some fool, we'd walk away from the accident. Too, we got a lot of respect, being in Volvos, that we would not have gotten while driving similarly-priced "reliable" vehicles.
And that's the point: Mercedes are designed to be extremely safe - plus, you get respect. Imagine you're hit at a substantial speed, by a drunken coyote in a stolen Suburban packed with illegals (not an unlikely event in Texas). What would you rather be driving? ... something heavy and over-engineered for safety? Or would you rather be driving something small and economical - something the 'Jaws of Life' will have to pry you out of? Would you rather walk away from an accident, or spend months in the hospital? What price do you attach to having an undamaged brain? How much are your limbs worth to you? Do you really want to care for a maimed/disabled child for the rest of his/her life? Can you afford it?
We 'inherited' as a 'maid', the notoriously cantankerous and foul-mouthed maid of a former Governor of our state. She couldn't keep house worth a flip, and her cooking was life-threatening. But boy could that woman DRIVE! And that's mostly what we needed her for: schlepping the kids all over town. She was ex-military, and had been to chauffeur-school, where she learned how to drive an S like she was saving the life of someone important. We bought her an Eighties 500SEL, which looked like hell, but ran just fine. Yes, the AC went out, and it was YEARS before we could fix it, since the repair was a small fortune. The kids toughed-it-out. Our Maid did a lot of the minor stuff herself, and took the car to an independent shop while we were working and the kids were at school. She applied touch-up paint, and polished the thing (and our Volvos) until it looked like Queen Elizabeth's Rolls. Despite the fact that the car was old and dented, the kids got a lot of status from being driven around in that near-limousine. We could have had them in an Avalon or a Taurus or an Impala, I guess. But that Mercedes looked right in the driveways of ritzy Northminster Baptist and Temple Beth Israel. A brand-new Impala would have cost the same. But it would have looked sad and dowdy. And if there'd been a collision?
I do think that older luxury cars are for people who are good with resource allocation (we were buying buildings for the kids' trust funds... so sometimes we'd have to go without air conditioning in the cars, in order to make the payments on a building.) And when we started our own businesses, there were tight spots. We saw stretches where we were eating soup made from lentils and squeezed-out scraps from the Health Food Co-op's Juice Bar. We went without things many people find essential (pets, for instance), so that we WOULD have the financial elasticity to replace a wiring harness or AC compressor. Maybe some people lack the moxy... And maybe some people are without gun-toting ex-military maids to run the car to the mechanic. So, YES: old luxury cars are not for everybody.
Maybe it'll cost you an extra 200 grand, over a lifetime, to drive used superluxury cars, as opposed to driving econoboxes. But what price do you attach to the well-being of even one member of your family?
Dealing with the injuries from just one accident, and for only one person, can, by the way, run into the MILLIONS, and can last a lifetime. Really trust your insurance company? Really, REALLY?
Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 09-15-2014 at 07:14 PM..
I DO value the judgement of a brilliant structural engineer I know, who buys a new S-class every six-to-eight years. He's made well over a hundred million Dollars designing and building his own office buildings and office parks. I've learned a LOT from him (although his business model is quite different from mine, and we deliberately have positioned ourselves so as not to compete for tenants).
And that's the point: Mercedes are designed to be extremely safe - plus, you get respect. Imagine you're hit at a substantial speed, by a drunken coyote in a stolen Suburban packed with illegals (not an unlikely event in Texas). What would you rather be driving? ... something heavy and over-engineered for safety? Or would you rather be driving something small and economical - something the 'Jaws of Life' will have to pry you out of? Would you rather walk away from an accident, or spend months in the hospital? What price do you attach to having an undamaged brain? How much are your limbs worth to you? Do you really want to care for a maimed/disabled child for the rest of his/her life? Can you afford it?
Maybe it'll cost you an extra 200 grand, over a lifetime, to drive used superluxury cars, as opposed to driving econoboxes. But what price do you attach to the well-being of even one member of your family?
Dealing with the injuries from just one accident, and for only one person, can, by the way, run into the MILLIONS. Really trust your insurance company? Really, REALLY?
Ok, GG, so a guy who's made hundreds of millions drive MB's isn't too surprising.
But ... don't you drive a Lexus now?
LOL, someone who goes out to hire some ex-military to drive their kids around. It's like they think they're the President or some head of state like "hey, do you know how to evade terrorists if they should try to kidnap little Sally?" "Da." And she's busting on the guy in the video? LOL.
LOL, someone who goes out to hire some ex-military to drive their kids around. It's like they think they're the President or some head of state like "hey, do you know how to evade terrorists if they should try to kidnap little Sally?" "Da." And she's busting on the guy in the video? LOL.
We 'inherited' a maid from the Governor's Mansion, who was ex-military. But who would be BETTER for driving all three of our kids? And what better car, than one designed to keep Ambassadors and Mafiosi safe from various 'devices'? Our old state led the nation in 'Deaths-per-mile-of-highway'. And our old metro was usually named as a runner-up for 'America's Murder Capital'.
Car-jackings and kidnappings and child-trafficking abound in that place, and it's nothing new. I don't think that the car or our gun-toting maid were overkill at all.
Hello, I am in the market for a used vehicle to replace my current car.
Living in Dallas, with its insatiable appetite for new Mercedes, BMW and Porsches, there are a lot of used vehicles coming off lease it seems.
In my research, I have found that Porsche holds their values the best, while BMW and Mercedes drop like a rock in utter free fall, especially the S-class. S class are around 90-120k new and you can a 2012 with low miles for 48k! E class for 35k!
Are these famous German brands that woeful in terms of reliability?
So, therefore, need advice on these makes and models....buy or stay clear?
Other option is to go the other direction and buy new Lexus I series or Hyundai genesis/equus.
If you are looking for long-term reliability Lexus can't be beat.
The video was interesting for sure. I could see how over engineering could be an issue.
Have a family member that bought a used late model (I think a 2012?) Mercedes that was a Certified Preowned I believe.
It will be interesting to see how the maintenance works out. Paying $900 for something like an oil change as was featured in the video is pretty outrageous.
GG, would older Mercedes or other cars really be safer than the most current cars with the latest in airbag technology etc?
Also my first car was a 1986 Volvo, so I know what you mean about those having solid frames. Bought it used in probably 1999 . Did have issues with stalling and it was eventually totaled in front of house (likely by a drunk driver late at night) hit and run . Thankfully nobody was in the car.
This whole conversation does explain a lot of why you can find even S classes for prices like this or lower. I've always looked at them as 'great deals' , but it makes a lot of sense now of why people end up getting rid of them for these low prices. ██ 2005 MERCEDES BENZ S500 *Gorgeous! NEW WAS $90,000.00! Best Buy!!
Asking $12,900 for a 2005 S500 Mercedes that was supposedly $90,000 new..
Here is a 2003 , asking $6900 , and they claim it was 100k new.
Meanwhile there are a lot of people asking about $10,000 for 2005 Honda Accords... MSRP was prob in the low 20s range at the time.
Adding to others' insightful comments, a couple of points:
1. The "lower end" MB and BMW (in the US, C-class and 3-series, respectively) are less complex, less cumbersome to maintain and more reliable than their larger brethren. They also don't depreciate so precipitously.
2. For BMW, the 1990s were what the 1980s were for MB; namely, an E36 3-series BMW is still fairly amenable to maintenance and repair by the home-mechanic, and isn't plagued by excessive gadgetry and complexity for complexity's sake. Some more adventurous owners would say the same for the E46 series, which takes us into the early 2000s.
Baloney. I have owned both BMW 3 and 5 Series cars. They are IDENTICAL mechanically and share the SAME ENGINE.
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