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Old 12-30-2007, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,308 posts, read 25,652,204 times
Reputation: 10566

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashcash23 View Post
What happens if I don't get my oil changed every 3K?

How long can a car go without getting an oil change?

What would happen if I never got my oil changed?

Just wondering.
Toughee, Nashcash.

Depending on the engine as well as the type of oil used, skipping a 3k mile change could mean absolutely nothing.

Most newer vehicles have a limit of about 7k miles if Synthetic Oil (Mobil 1, etc) is used.

I never go beyond 2500 miles on my vehicles but that's because I usually keep them for many many years.
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:01 PM
 
10,868 posts, read 41,128,193 times
Reputation: 14009
While the wear rates in the engine are subject to the use/abuse of each situation, with modern oils and engine metallurgy, there's little problem going well past 3,000 miles per change.

I've been using mid continent based dino based oils since the 1960's ... and have yet to have an engine give me at least 300,000 miles of good service with 5,000 mile oil changes. The only car that didn't go a long ways without a problem was a 1964 Ford 289, which needed a valve job at 85,000 miles. All the rest of my cars ... BMW, MB, Ford & Dodge trucks, Peugeot, VW, Audi, Subaru, and many others ... have all been very happy on extended intervals. Even my motorcycles ran great ... put 100K plus each on several italian bikes, vintage 1966 through 1978, with these oil intervals. (now, the english bikes were another story ... they failed no matter what oil and interval was used .... esp G12 Matchless with the third main bearing, or Tri Tiger Cubs with a weak bottom end ....)

The one series of oil I would avoid until a motor is almost worn out is the pure pennsylvania crude based dino oils. They're great for plugging up a worn motor ... we used to "dry up" high oil consumption high mileage motors for used car dealers by changing over to this stuff. I've now changed over to this at 225,000 miles on my wife's 1995 Subaru 2.2 and stopped the oil burning that it was just starting to do on cold start up.

Of passing interest ... unless you have an extreme climate condition or highly abusive driving conditions, there's no net gain in using the high dollar synthetic oils. This has been tested in controlled conditions of fleet useage and maintenance, and there's not been a valid reason to change in any fleet I've seen .... even for vehicles that run 100K per year. In our aircraft running Continental motors, we've seen a benefit using the straight wt dino juice oils compared to the semi-synthetic oils ... less wear at high motor times with the dino juice; the exception has been planes frequently flown from cold start-up wear getting the oil flow sooner with the 15w oil has been a benefit.

In my shop, we "tested" three MB 240D fleet cars (an architectural firm), using Amsoil synthetic oil and an external by-pass "toilet paper" filter. Changed filters every 3,000 miles, and the oil every 15,000 ... even when they were still very clean. At 180-200K miles, they still needed valve jobs just like the rest of the fleet running dino oils on 5,000 mile intervals. I'd say that the compression/bottom ends held up better, but the cars were retired at 500,000 miles and replaced with new MB diesels. If there was a net gain in durability, it came at a great cost and no particular benefit to the owners after 10 years.

Last edited by sunsprit; 12-30-2007 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:07 PM
 
Location: McKeesport, PA
2,329 posts, read 6,847,513 times
Reputation: 1536
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
As I recall from another post somewhere, don't you live in an always warm tropical climate? That might have something to do with your luck. If you ever live in Missouri, I would not advise you try that.
Yes, you're correct. I lived in Miami. The car was a standard shift, 4-cyl (normally aspirated) Ford Probe (whose engine is actually made by Mazda...the same as the Mazda MX-6)
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:53 PM
 
1 posts, read 6,651 times
Reputation: 10
It's like cooking your eggs in the same oil without changing it.....bikman
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:48 PM
 
Location: appleton, wi
1,357 posts, read 4,950,222 times
Reputation: 614
once upon a time i wrote toyota service. we had a guy who came in with a 3 yr old corolla, 32K miles, bought it new. it was an asian guy who did not speak english; he misunderstood and thought that he should come in for an oil change at 3 years instead of 3K miles. the engine was seized.

and since we're on the subject, most cars have a much longer interval than 3K miles. oil is better and engines are better than the old days. 3K changes in a new car is a waste of resources. many actually have 10K change intervals in "ideal" conditions (which almost never exsist making the interval 5K or maybe 7500 mfg dependant) like honda, toyota, and some like porsche have a 2yr/20K interval in many of their cars, using synthetic oil of course.

lots of people ***** about buying oil from "terrorists" or whatever and without opening the political debate, its obvious that relearning the old 3K habit could save us a lot of oil...
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,248 posts, read 20,585,817 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by yo vanilla View Post
once upon a time i wrote toyota service. we had a guy who came in with a 3 yr old corolla, 32K miles, bought it new. it was an asian guy who did not speak english; he misunderstood and thought that he should come in for an oil change at 3 years instead of 3K miles. the engine was seized.

and since we're on the subject, most cars have a much longer interval than 3K miles. oil is better and engines are better than the old days. 3K changes in a new car is a waste of resources. many actually have 10K change intervals in "ideal" conditions (which almost never exsist making the interval 5K or maybe 7500 mfg dependant) like honda, toyota, and some like porsche have a 2yr/20K interval in many of their cars, using synthetic oil of course.

lots of people ***** about buying oil from "terrorists" or whatever and without opening the political debate, its obvious that relearning the old 3K habit could save us a lot of oil...
Even more people ***** about the ***** that appears everytime you wanna ***** about things. Why can't they just let you ***** or should we write "lots of people female dog about buying oil from...."
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Nashville,Tn
355 posts, read 2,457,936 times
Reputation: 260
I have another question. Do all newer vehicles come with a light or readout thing that tells you that it is time for an oil change?
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:41 PM
 
Location: appleton, wi
1,357 posts, read 4,950,222 times
Reputation: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
While the wear rates in the engine are subject to the use/abuse of each situation, with modern oils and engine metallurgy, there's little problem going well past 3,000 miles per change.

I've been using mid continent based dino based oils since the 1960's ... and have yet to have an engine give me at least 300,000 miles of good service with 5,000 mile oil changes. The only car that didn't go a long ways without a problem was a 1964 Ford 289, which needed a valve job at 85,000 miles. All the rest of my cars ... BMW, MB, Ford & Dodge trucks, Peugeot, VW, Audi, Subaru, and many others ... have all been very happy on extended intervals. Even my motorcycles ran great ... put 100K plus each on several italian bikes, vintage 1966 through 1978, with these oil intervals. (now, the english bikes were another story ... they failed no matter what oil and interval was used .... esp G12 Matchless with the third main bearing, or Tri Tiger Cubs with a weak bottom end ....)

The one series of oil I would avoid until a motor is almost worn out is the pure pennsylvania crude based dino oils. They're great for plugging up a worn motor ... we used to "dry up" high oil consumption high mileage motors for used car dealers by changing over to this stuff. I've now changed over to this at 225,000 miles on my wife's 1995 Subaru 2.2 and stopped the oil burning that it was just starting to do on cold start up.

Of passing interest ... unless you have an extreme climate condition or highly abusive driving conditions, there's no net gain in using the high dollar synthetic oils. This has been tested in controlled conditions of fleet useage and maintenance, and there's not been a valid reason to change in any fleet I've seen .... even for vehicles that run 100K per year. In our aircraft running Continental motors, we've seen a benefit using the straight wt dino juice oils compared to the semi-synthetic oils ... less wear at high motor times with the dino juice; the exception has been planes frequently flown from cold start-up wear getting the oil flow sooner with the 15w oil has been a benefit.

In my shop, we "tested" three MB 240D fleet cars (an architectural firm), using Amsoil synthetic oil and an external by-pass "toilet paper" filter. Changed filters every 3,000 miles, and the oil every 15,000 ... even when they were still very clean. At 180-200K miles, they still needed valve jobs just like the rest of the fleet running dino oils on 5,000 mile intervals. I'd say that the compression/bottom ends held up better, but the cars were retired at 500,000 miles and replaced with new MB diesels. If there was a net gain in durability, it came at a great cost and no particular benefit to the owners after 10 years.
except that you used triple the amount of dino oil. also diesel engines are unfamiliar territory to me, but wouldn't the neccessity of a valve job have more to do with the quality of the fuel vs the oil i.e. combustion chamber corrosion.

further, do you think you may have found the results to be different with gas engines that rev higher? when i worked for a porsche dealer, a very knowledgeable PCNA rep told me the engineers designing the corvette C5 Z06 saved a few hundred dollars per car by switching to synthetic oil - which dropped the oil temps low enough that they no longer needed an external oil cooler. in my own cars (ones equipped with an oil temp gauge) i have seen better than 20F drops in oil temp when i switched to synthetic oil. that's a big drop. also you did mention extreme climates but i have found syn oil makes a significant difference in start up and warm up times in the dead of winter.
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Old 12-31-2007, 07:43 PM
 
Location: appleton, wi
1,357 posts, read 4,950,222 times
Reputation: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashcash23 View Post
I have another question. Do all newer vehicles come with a light or readout thing that tells you that it is time for an oil change?
not all but many do. toyotas and hondas do, and i believe that many if not all new gm's do as well. also all of the german cars sold here should. my subaru and mazda do not.
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Old 12-31-2007, 10:38 PM
 
10,868 posts, read 41,128,193 times
Reputation: 14009
yo ...

we may have used "triple the oil" quantity in the years of service, but the NET COST was signifcantly less due to the far lower cost per quart of conventional mid continent crude based oils (Delo 400, Rotella T, Valvoline XLD) compared to the full synthetics.

Please, don't let you ignorance hang out so far ... diesels inject the fuel directly into the combustion chamber area, and not into the intake. So the fuel never comes in contact with the intake system, and is not an issue. The reason MB diesels (among others ...) wear the valve guides oval, especially the intake ... has to do with the "side loading" geometry of the valve as it's actuated by the camshaft/follower, which pushes the valve a bit to the side instead of straight up and down. It's been a pet peeve of mine re MB design parameters, although I see this problem in many other OHC motors, too. OTOH, I've made a fair bit of money over 40 years doing valve jobs on these cars where the valves & seats had minimal wear ... it was the guides and seals that were the main causation of needing a valve job.

While I did mention my in-shop testing for a client for the potential benefits of running synthetic oil ... what you've missed is that the major fleet operators around the country have come to the same conclusion. There's no overall benefit to the expense of running synthetic oil ... wear rates, engine temps, etc ... and I think you'd be very hard pressed to find any fleet that has changed over to synthetic oil.

OK, I'll accept in certain hard running situations or climate extremes, they may be advantages to running a synthetic oil. But they're very much the exception to the rule, not the norm. Picking out the high points of Porsches, Corvettes, and a few similar higher performance cars isn't the general automotive marketplace ... it's a specialty niche where extremely fine & minute differences are the stuff of enthusiasts. When I look at the cars on the streets around me, I see very few of these cars ... and the sales numbers indicate they aren't very popular considering that there's a lot of choices in their price ranges today which are drawing the automotive public in other directions.

It's also interesting to note that stationary motors where durability and longevity and performance are paramount ... generating stations, pumping stations, marine powerplants ... which run 24/7, sometimes for years at high loads .... don't spec synthetic oil. Last time I serviced a PAMCO (propane fueled), it still used dino oil. Same for the Caterpillars, Cummins, Detroit's, and all the other diesel aux motors I've worked on. Most of these motors cost many times the cost of your Corvette ... so protecting them is important, especially where downtime is of the most critical importance.

Which is why I draw upon my experience with motors that are truly run full time in high loads ... aviation motors. These motors are well documented in service, and generally run at continuous high power loads for hours .... 65% and up. That's something a street car almost never does, except briefly on acceleration ... in cruise mode, they run a small fraction of the available horsepower at street legal speeds. Anyway, I work closely with a couple of aviation machine shops and we're seeing much better service life out of straight weight semi-synthetic oils than multi-vis full synthetic oils. These motors get very thorough inspection and documentation on rebuilds ... something far in excess of even "blueprinting" done by automotive machine shops; it all has to do with liability issues in the aviation business. The shops know which motors have been run on which oils ... especially the rental fleet aircraft, which must be inspected every 100 hours and overhauled per TBO run time specs from the manufacturer, so they've been well documented along the way to that overhaul. Those of us who fly our own aircraft carefully have been finding out that we can safely go many many hours past the TBO specs, and getting longer service by not using synthetic oils.
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